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megagutsman
(Seven Years' War)
2nd Sep, 2022 03:36:57 PM
Did you sent them a message to come here to explain their position?.
Edgar81539
Since: Mar, 2014
2nd Sep, 2022 04:52:41 PM
No, I would rather a mod do that since they justified their re-additions in "edit reasons".
Edited by Edgar81539
RandomTroper123
(Not-So-Newbie)
2nd Sep, 2022 05:21:19 PM
I don't feel the Narm entry is an example, though I'm unsure about the others atm.
^^I honestly don't think that's needed since they (I didn't see anything stating their gender) already explained their position in an edit reason. However, I don't see anything wrong with them joining the conversation if they want to.
Tabs
MOD
Since: Jan, 2001
2nd Sep, 2022 05:41:03 PM
AMassiveOvereditor is suspended for edit warring.
Edgar81539
Since: Mar, 2014
3rd Sep, 2022 03:03:12 AM
Edited by Edgar81539
Thank you. What's to be done with the entries I mentioned and were re-added? I see Random Troper 123 agreed with me that the Bardock example doesn't count as Narm (it reads more like a Fridge Logic complaint), but what about the others?
Copypasting the examples below so that other users can provide some feedback
Entries at contention
- Ass Pull:
- There's only two Dragonballs on planet Cereal instead of the standard seven and they can be used repeatedly without needing a full year to recharge. Both traits seem like they were cooked up for the sake of skipping over the time-consuming adventure part of the story arc and cut to the fighting.
- Monaito knowing hypnosis can be considered completely out of left field, as it is never even hinted Monaito has any fighting abilities, let alone something as powerful as putting enemies to sleep. The fact that it brings up Forgot About His Powers for how it could have potentially been used much earlier on the likes of Elec means that it seems like an excuse to stop Oil and Macki for interrupting Granolah.
- Vegeta using destruction powers to close the gap between him and Goku caused by Ultra Instinct. Everything before Beerus mentioned the idea indicated that the technique of the Angels far surpasses that of the Gods of Destruction's, with Beerus himself training to use Ultra Instinct.
- The exact mechanics of the various "strongest in the universe" wishes made throughout the arc are not explained very well. Sacrificing years of the user's lifespan for a huge power-up is one thing, but it's never adequately explained how Granolah and Gas are able to mimic advanced ki techniques (such as Beerus's Hakai, Moro's magma blast and Goku's Instant Transmission) that they've never seen before. The fact that Gas has several further trump cards, including a sophisticated weapon-spawning ability and the power to unleash his full potential even further by removing his Power Limiter necklace, is also contrived to extend the fights even more.
- The story ends with Frieza showing up, outright killing both Gas and Elec, showing off his brand new "Black Frieza" form to one-shot both UE Vegeta and UI Goku before leaving is easily this. The circumstances of how he got so powerful is hardly any better. Somehow he managed to conquer a planet that leads him to a dimension like the Room of Spirit and Time which enabled him to become much more powerful in a short amount of time.note
- Character Rerailment: Even detractors of the arc tend to agree that the character writing is generally strong. Vegeta receives some major Character Development relating to his guilt complex about the Saiyans' past atrocities and he even acquires a unique new transformation that acts as the Yin to Ultra Instinct's Yang. However, the fact that Vegeta doesn't accomplish anything with his new transformation has made some discourse as to rather he was rerailed or not.
- Creator's Pet: Like many promoted fans of the series, Toyotaro has made it no secret that Bardock is one of his favourite characters (even Toriyama is fond of Bardock, despite the fact that he is not one of his creations), so it wasn't hugely surprising when he was eventually incorporated into the Super manga. However, the emphatic focus on Bardock as the one behind Granolah's survival, Gas's grudge against Saiyans, and even Goku's maturation into adulthood (long story) has led to some accusations of pandering to Bardock's large fanbase.
- Fan-Disliked Explanation:
- The reveal that Bardock wished upon the Dragon Balls for his sons to thrive.note To some, this twist undermines the themes of prior arcs. Others simply dislike how vague and poorly explained it is, since every other wish throughout the series is more definitive. The wish raises the valid concern that Son Goku's achievements were never his own if fate was protecting him from harm and guiding him in the right direction. Lastly, the wish did Raditz no favors since he did not grow up especially strong compared to his Saiyan brethren and was killed by combatants weaker than himself, including his brother Goku.
- Some have defended the twist by reasoning that the wish helped to give Goku his often unbelievable luck in the earlier arcs of the original manga, such as when his Four-Star Dragon Ball deflecting Taopaipai's Dodonpa or when his heart suddenly restarted after a fatal beatdown from Demon King Piccolo.
- On another note, one of the earlier chapters in the saga had Moori claim that the Namekians were not originally from Planet Namek and that they actually settled on many planets throughout Universe 7 and presumably other universes. This serves to explain why there are Namekians and Dragon Balls on Planet Cerealnote , which helps to kickstart Granolah's revenge plot. To some, this only only serves to confuse things, as there is no follow up as to where they come from or how they arrived in another universe. It instead seems to be a very confusing Handwave when a much simpler explanation could have been used instead. Trying to explain that the Namekians are not actually from Namek is somewhat cumbersome, so many fans prefer to ignore this Retcon for the sake of simplicity.
- The reveal that Bardock wished upon the Dragon Balls for his sons to thrive.note To some, this twist undermines the themes of prior arcs. Others simply dislike how vague and poorly explained it is, since every other wish throughout the series is more definitive. The wish raises the valid concern that Son Goku's achievements were never his own if fate was protecting him from harm and guiding him in the right direction. Lastly, the wish did Raditz no favors since he did not grow up especially strong compared to his Saiyan brethren and was killed by combatants weaker than himself, including his brother Goku.
- Franchise Original Sin: Truth be told, this is far from the first arc of Dragon Ball that had a good deal of Arc Fatigue and many issues that plagues the series, but the fact that the series had started with a more engaging and near universally praised story that seemed to promise a different take than what fans had come to expect over the years. Unfortunately, it's due to a return to form along with many questionable choices in writing that have quickly soured some fans perception of the arc and wish for it to be over.
- Harsher in Hindsight: Vegeta attacks Goku for saving him because he's determined to prove to himself that he can defeat a mighty opponent on his own. As the rest of the arc shows, he can't.
- They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot: Arguably, the entire plot of the arc is thrown away in its last chapter. While Granolah lets go of his hate against the Saiyans and then refuses to kill Gas when it's shown he's still alive. When this seemingly comes back to bite Granolah when Gas mortally wounds Monaito, it seems like it would be another example of the consequences of sparing a villain akin to Goku sparing Moro. However, any personal grudges or growth is rendered pointless by Frieza's sudden appearance, who wipes out Gas and Elec and conscripts Macki and Oil before leaving, while Whis saves Monaito then he with Granolah resolve to undo the damage to the planet. As such, the arc comes down to being a little more than a road bump to the next one.
I removed a bunch of entries from the YMMV page of the Granolah's arc from Dragon Ball Super, since they were violations of policy (adding a Broken Base entry just days after the arc had ended, for example, alongside a It Was His Sled entry, and an Audience-Alienating Ending entry when the entire arc is days old). I also removed some entries that read as too much complaining instead of actually showing an audience reaction, particularly concerning Narm, Ass Pull, Franchise Original Sin and Fan-Disliked Explanation.
troper AMassiveOvereditor
(Which originally added most of these entries) added a bunch of entries back, with the exception of the entries that negated policy. What should be done in this case? I feel that rather than reflecting the views of the audience itself, the page just merely centers on the views of this specific troper. Not to say that there isn't examples of Narm and Ass Pull (I left some of those and after some days I thought that maybe I should have added back the Black Frieza entry in Ass Pull), but I feel that the page as a whole is too negative, which is a common problem in the Dragon Ball Super manga pages.
Edited by Edgar81539