raygun goth
Hey, guys! Word of God here. Just want to say that I agree with the majority of complaints here; I put out Pathogen over the course of about one weekend with intent to tighten it up and actually make it into something workable (I created for a Monster of the Week, and it spiraled out from there; I stopped running Wo D a short time after, and projects started to pile up). I like what's happening here a lot, and I just want to say how awesome you all are.
Paedomorphosis does stand out as being "weird" and not really belonging where it does; I'd intended to replace it with something else, and their presence was really to target one specific player. I was running a sci-fi campaign before the Wo D game, and the presence of genetically modified humans who stayed child-size with exaggerated eyes and heads for use in mining or long-term space travel (to reduce resource use) really creeped him out, even moreso than the mole and flea-like zero-gravity vacuum modified humans, so that's why it seems like it stands out.
Suffice to say, I support this effort, and can't wait to see what more is done with it.
If that guard used to be an adventurer like me, we have to leave this town right the hell now.
Hi there, about a month back I talked to Adam about working on Pathogen and I sent him a few of my things. Just today actually he sent me an e-mail about you guys here, and I was wondering if I could share some of my ideas. They're actually fleshed out already, but let me just share what I've made so far as a brief summary.
Two new proposed Symptoms: The Terminal and the Cold. Terminals resemble clinical anorexia or a late-stage cancer/life-threatening disease. They lose hair, skin tone,weight at a rapid pace. They take a hit to their max health in exchange for an increase in dexterity (lithe, flexible bodies), they dislike the sun because ultraviolet rays irritate their gentle skin. Cold Infected suffer from headaches, sore throats and violent coughing fits, causing them to have problems on certain rolls because of random bouts of coughing. They become obsessed with order and cleanliness, gaining agoraphobia in large spaces or crowds, but overall gain the 9 again rule on Medicine and Science rolls because of their own knowledge of self-medication.
Reason for proposal: There's only four "canon" symptoms, and these are close to home with what it means to be sick: to be miserable, to be paranoid, to be suffering.
Proposed Subversion: Blood. People with the Blood subversion gain the ability to control and manipulate their blood flow, levels and even PH concentration. They can make it weep openly from their pores to scare people, build up pressure to launch a burst of coagulated spikes or even supercharge their blood pressure to defensively spray anyone that injures them.
Reason for proposal: Blood is life. Blood is important. Wielding the powers of an abberation of life at your fingertips for the purpose of offense and defense in a horrific manner is ALSO what the game's about.
Please, give me opinions and let me know if I've overstepped boundaries, stepped on toes/decisions/etc. or tell me to post more.
edited 16th Dec '10 1:30:48 PM by pkfan2004
It's Adam! Squeee~ 
...Actually I was suddenly worried that a fan will eventually show up and come after me with a crowbar for "ruining" your vision, so the timing was perfect xD (Word of God! Suck on it, complainers!)
But seriously, that means a lot.
This one had just come up, so I will ask just out of curiosity: Where did the word "jagda" come form? Was it perhaps from "jagada" in Sanksrit ("to manifest", from what little I understand from the language)?
...And since we are on the topic, let me quetly tell that I also plan to tweak Resonance to be a measure of the infection's progress, limit Blackout to make it seem less like an evil twin and more a loss of body control, sort Subversions into mutations and other abilities, expand Incorporation to allow for the assimilation of living creatures, clean up the Vectors, and reassign Slime Body to a whole new Subversions that allows you to devolve your character into other life forms. For starters.
So, nothing fundamental. -innocent face-
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Sweet, do you have them worked out for every level?
Blood works (we have Flesh and Bone after all) so I(we)'d be glad to see what you've got.
We need more suggestions for Symptoms. ^I like those Symptoms, but they seem to be built around illness categories, rather than individual medical signs? Which is not bad, just not quite the same category as fever, rashes or insomnia.
I'm kind of stuck with the Symptoms, I admit. Creating more is not an issue. We could easily make a dozen.
(One such idea was to associate the Symptoms with the basic physiological needs, and the related health risks (these begin on p.175 in the Wo D main rulebook).
- Insomniac: Fatigue.
- Fevered: Temperature Extremes.
- Dermis: Damage.
Insomnia is sleep; Fever is thermoregulation. So, for example, thinking on the lines of basic needs and homeostasis: breathing, food, water, sleep, thermoregulation, excretion (and, some say, sex), gives us a set with just the right amount of Symptoms.)
The -bigger- issue is that they are our means to offer character types, for now. Which is not bad, but it means that they need to be relatable with character archetypes for the characters to pick from. For example: a physical type, a social type, and a few others based on aspects of the game's topic. And these 5 should more or less cover
This is the current tradition of nWoD: there are always 5-6 starting splats to pick from, which give you a general idea of the character.
@Zeno suggested that we drop this, but some sort of crutch is needed for the players.
Technically we could offer a list of 7-8 Symptoms that are only a disadvantage and nothing more, and treat the "classes" completely differently, but what'd those be?
edited 20th Dec '10 5:57:34 AM by Vree
raygun goth
It all sounds good; I fully support the public gutting and quartering of this work. I actually haven't read it in so long that I forget most of what I'd written, but I bet the fiction wasn't just awful, but god-awful, and the mechanics were garbage. I'll read it tonight when I get some free time.
"Jagda" came from a portmanteau of jagada (which I was told at the time meant "to come forth from the inside to the outside," but I don't know how correct that is, if at all), and the Dagda, the father-god and king of the Tuatha Dé Danann with a magic club that could kill nine enemies at once.
If that guard used to be an adventurer like me, we have to leave this town right the hell now.
I think that "Body Heat" was great. I'd slightly rewrite Paths Of Infection so that the possible sources of the Infection don't blend together that much (but then again, maybe a whole new section on designing your own Pathogen may be added, if I can just put my thoughts on Vectors into text), but there wasn't anything particularly wrong with the rest of the text, it was very inspirational and I loved it.
The mechanics, there could probably be improvement. The majority of it though is useable with only a few adjustments.
A note on the Resonance table: there are two types of advancement tables used in Wo D, and the one for vampires and werewolves offers slower increase. I heard that the logic behind this is because they can directly spend power points to heal themselves, but I have no idea if there is truth to this.
Something to consider is that if the players pay for Resonance advancement with their own exp, then the first few levels offer very little advantage (a measly +1 Max ATP per level), which may demotivate someone from buying his way up from Res 1 to 4 (when the ATP/turn bonus starts to get better). The other books use a more advantageous Power Per Turn increase (+1 Max and Per Turn per level), but keep the Max Total the same. Even if we follow the vampire / werewolf model, it may be worth adjusting the Max Power progression to make it more evenly distributed (Genius and some other home rule hacks did the same). And of course, check if that's the best progression for the Infected and perhaps come up with some other use for Resonance that justifies the price if we go with that.
edited 17th Dec '10 1:56:31 AM by Vree
Blood
The cells and plasma of the Infected work overtime and their blood pressure skyrockets, living in a state of extreme hypertension. Blood flows freely as if the Infected is a walking hose, and even the smallest cut seems to take forever to coagulate and clot. However, despite appearances, the Infected has perfect control over their precious fluids, able to contain the excess pints without bloating or appearing too odd.
● Red Scare
The Infected can force excess blood to bleed through the pores of their face, hands or body, leaving pools and messy trails in their wake and coating their body in blood. While not necessarily beneficial, the Infected realize exactly how horrific and disturbing this visage is to their enemies, using it as a demoralizing and intimidating tactic.
Cost: 1 ATP per turn.
Dice Pool: Stamina + Presence + Blood vs. Victim’s Composure + Resolve
Dramatic Failure: The Infected’s ploy backfires: not only is the victim not shaken, but the amount of blood required for the ability affects the Infected, causing one point of Lethal damage and losing the ATP spent.
Failure: The blood flows, but the enemy isn’t dissuaded.
Success: The Infected scores more successes and enemy is shaken heavily, suffering a -2 to all rolls made against the bleeding target.
Exceptional Success: The scare tactic works well, amazingly well. The same roll hindrance applies, but the victim is also compelled to flee combat as soon as they can.
●● Bloody Mess
The Infected spends the points in advance, building up their blood pressure to insane levels. When faced with Bashing damage, they launch a gout of their own blood directly from their mouths at their attacker. When struck with Lethal damage, the wound erupts in a defensive spray, drenching their enemy. This applies only once in combat; any other attacks don’t cause such an explosive reaction.
Cost: 2 ATP
Dice Pool: None. The enemy must make a Dodge or Defense roll to avoid getting splattered. If unsuccessful, the enemy ends up becoming blinded, suffering -4 to all attack rolls unless they spend a turn taking the time to wipe their faces clean. Bystanders (not including the spraying target) must make a Composure or Resolve roll to avoid being shaken or shocked by the sight.
edited 17th Dec '10 2:11:41 AM by pkfan2004
●●● Iron-Forged Weapons
Using their reserves of blood, the Infected can force a crude weapon made of their own coagulated blood into their possession through an orifice or wound. The result is a lethal melee tool usable only by the Infected that can also be thrown, but if the weapon doesn’t return to their hand within one turn it dissolves into a red puddle.
Cost: 1 ATP
Dice Pool: Stamina + Resonance + Blood
Dramatic Failure: The Infected does not manage to manifest a weapon but does lose blood, causing 2 Lethal damage as a result.
Failure: The Infected focuses and tries, but a weapon simply doesn’t form.
Success: The weapon last for an amount of turns equal to the Infected’s Stamina + Resonance.
One Success: The Infected creates a simple knife, javelin or small, sharp tool made from their blood that deals +1 Lethal damage. The Infected can use the weapons with Strength + Weaponry or Improvised.
Two Successes: The Infected can create two small edged weapons for use in two-weapon attacks, dealing +1 Lethal each. These also use Strength + Weaponry/Improvised, but two-weapon hindrances still apply unless negating Merits have been taken.
Three Successes: The Infected are able to create one massive weapon in the form of an axe, sword or spear from their own blood. The mighty weapon deals +2 Lethal damage, but must be used with two hands and with Strength + Weaponry/Improvised.
Exceptional Successes: The Infected can use the extra successes to either increase the life of their weapon (lasts for +1 round for each additional success) or increase the damage their weapon does (+1 point of Lethal damage for every two extra successes).
●●●● Pressure Spikes
The Infected releases pent up liters of blood offensively, launching an explosive volley of razor-tipped spears made of coagulated blood all around them. The weapons dissolve almost instantly after they come to rest, but they deal 3 points of Lethal damage for every successful strike.
Cost: 3 ATP, but requires two rounds to prepare after the ATP is spent.
Dice Pool: Stamina + Resonance + Blood - Enemy’s Defense - Range Penalties
Dramatic Failure: Not only does the attack miss, but the attack is especially draining, inflicting 3 Lethal damage back onto the Infected.
Failure: The attacks miss and the ATP and turn are spent.
Success: Each spike deals 3 Lethal damage to each enemy within the ranges of a standard pistol.
Exceptional Success: The Infected can focus their onslaught at one person, sending any successful attacks directly at them instead of injuring all enemies. This, as one can imagine, is most likely fatal.
●●●●● Plasma Burns
The Infected focuses long and hard, causing the PH of their blood to either plummet or skyrocket to insane degrees. As a result, highly basic or acidic blood courses through their veins until its release, transforming the Infected into a walking cannon of caustic liquid.
Cost: 5 ATP, requires four rounds of preparation before it can be used.
Dice Pool: Stamina+Resonance+Blood
Dramatic Failure: The Infected is unable to control the enhanced blood, and all internal containment systems fail. Not only does the Infected lose their ATP and use of the attack, but they also suffer 1 horrific Aggravated Wound internally from their own blood.
Failure: The jet of blood misses the target, the blood dissolving or burning the target's nearby surroundings.
Success: The blood strikes the target, doling out 1 point of Aggravated Wound for every success, often resulting in long-lasting or gruesome scars on the target should they survive.
Exceptional Success: Maybe it's the arc of the blood, the cone of the spray, the sheer PH, the affected area, or any combination of the four. The fact of the matter is that the attack is overwhelming, doling out six points of Aggravated Damage on the target. Should they be lucky enough to survive the chemical bath, they'll have to live with being permanently disfigured.
(I apologize for the punny names but they made sense to me)
edited 17th Dec '10 12:58:22 AM by pkfan2004
Cold
I feel like hammered shit. I’ve gone through two packets of those stupid cough drops and at least box of tissues. I’d chalk it up to my allergies, but it’s not even the right season for them. I’m running out of sick days, but the coughing and sneezing won’t subside no matter how many “cures” I use. But with all the blood I’m hacking up…I don’t think I’ll be going back any time soon.
It’s amazing how many people just shake off or try to ignore the effects of the international common cold, going about their day with a wad of tissues and saline spray. One would argue it’s a constant of life: everyone gets afflicted every so often. Unfortunately, the beginning stages of a Cold Infection often go unnoticed by victims, and they simply try to wait it out.
Not easily deterred, the Cold quickly amplifies in volume and intensity. The infected are plagued with raw throats, painful sneezes and gouts of viscous scum with every hacking cough. They often end up paranoid about cleanliness and order to “eliminate” the any sources of the cold.
The Buildup
As the infection progresses, the infected become more and more obsessed with order and sterility, taking to wearing gloves, carrying sanitary wipes and keeping things neat. Physically, their bodies are racked with spasms from powerful, booming coughs and sneezing, ending up rasping in hoarse voices or coughing up blood due to damaged esophageal tissue. As a result, the infected avoid open spaces without protective covering or tissues, constantly afraid of spreading their affliction. These feelings of compulsion and obsession subside when the infected are in a small, controllable space or designated clean room, and as a result their symptoms subside psychosomatically. The host suffers a -2 Dice Pool Penalty to social or composure rolls in wide-open or heavily crowded spaces.
The Bad News
The infected tends to be interrupted by frequent coughing and sneezing fits, something with doesn’t go unnoticed. As a result, they suffer from a -3 penalty to Athletics or Stealth rolls due to the chance that an episode might interrupt attempts.
The Good News
Their obsessive habits and previous attempts to find a localized source of their afflictions has granted the infected a greater knowledge for Investigation and Medicine. As a result, Cold-sufferers gain the 9-again rule on Medicine and Investigation.
Primary Subversion: Blood
Terminal
I thought I was going to be okay, that I was going to be pretty without the weight. But now, I’m a bag of bones. I feel like a strained trash bag barely hiding its contents. They think I’m anorexic, or bulimic, or whatever, but I can’t get enough food these days. I wish I could explain why I look like I’m at Death’s Door…but I don’t think anything can, at this point.
Loss of color, loss of hair and weight: the signs of Terminal symptoms are all too similar and easily mistaken for a much more insidious condition by an unaware host. The Terminal are the most likely to go running to a doctor at the first sign of trouble, often dismissed as anemia, hypochondria, malnutrition or an unhealthy diet. Should symptoms persist (and they will), doctors are likely to sit the host down and talk about funeral arrangements. Unfortunately for them, their problem is worse than leukemia, cancer or life-threatening diseases; theirs fight back in a much, much dangerous way.
The Terminal starts off with losing skin tone and complexion, gaining a strong hunger in the process. Their cheeks become gaunt and hollow, and co-workers and loved ones immediately become concerned for their well being; a concern that grows on a daily basis.
The Buildup
The infection works quickly and ruthlessly: the host sloughs off weight rapidly, loses hair in clumps and starts to develop a distinct paranoid personality. They become more and more aware of the attention that their condition draws, leading them to dress up in wigs, baggy clothing, hooded jackets or heavy make-up. The Terminals feel a strong compulsion to uphold the status quo when around others, treating their affliction as a dirty secret that must be kept hidden at all costs, instinctively distrusting anyone who expresses a little too much sympathy. They’ll start avoiding the doctor out of a primal sense of self-protection; daylight and harsh lighting become their natural enemies, stinging and irritating their pallid skin and eyes much more than a normal human. As a result, the distractions of the sun, UV or heavy fluorescent light cause a -2 Dice Pool Penalty for mental rolls, unable to focus against the irritation.
The Bad News
Terminal infected tend to display physical and athletic issues due to their naturally weakened nature. The host’s Health Pool is reduced by one or two due to their struggling immune system and state of body.
The Good News
The Terminal often ends up slender and lithe as a result of massive weight loss, and it works to their advantage when it comes to dodging or feats of evasion. The infected gain +1 or +2 to Dexterity, only gaining the +2 buff if they suffer a -2 Health penalty.
Primary Subversion: Flesh
So that's all of my two cents; I'm really just happy to help out, even if it's used or not. I also don't care if they're called "Terminal" or "Cold", they can just be "Sickly" or "Coughers" or whatever.
Those seem perfectly usable to me. Also, since you named them after the associated ilnesses I thought that the descriptions will be like those too, but they are actually single symptoms like the rest (Cold is coughing ("tussis") and sneezing, and Terminal is cachexia).
Happy to contribute, boss. Frankly, "Cachexia" and "Tussis" sound like bad-ass clinical alternatives and fits well with the other symptom names. I'm happy to help with the rest of the project, and at the moment was going to start working on the rest of the Flesh subversion or anything you'd need a hand with (I can't recall if anyone called dibs on working on Flesh or not).
Has anyone mentioned the works of Scott Westerfeld already as potential inspiration? Peeps and its sequel seem to gel rather well with this. Especially since the narrator likes to give little essays on disturbing real-life parasites in between chapters.
Flesh:
● Gruesome Visage The Infected warps and stretches the skin and muscles of their face in any manner they see fit, from cartoonish to nightmarish through either force of will or their hands. Their face is twisted enough to terrify even the most stalwart foe, resembling more freak than man.
Cost: 1 ATP
Dice Pool: Stamina + Presence + Flesh vs. Victim’s Composure + Resolve
Dramatic Failure: Not only is the enemy unaffected by the sight of the Infected's face, the process of transformation takes more of a toll than expected. Spent ATP is not returned, and the Infected receives three Bashing Damage from the trauma of having to re-arrange their face.
Failure: The Infected succeeds in warping their face, but their enemy isn't fazed.
Success: The enemy is successfully scared by the horrific face of the Infected and is shaken, resulting in a -4 penalty for all attacks against that Infected.
Exceptional Success: The ploy works, but the enemy isn’t the only one traumatized. In addition to the target, all other enemies within sight range are affected with the -4 penalty, heavily disturbed by what they see.
●● Human Wrecking Ball
The Infected is able to channel and re-direct body mass directly into their extremities, causing their arms or legs to swell grotesquely with muscle, fat and weight. This often causes the Infected to become top-heavy or gain an uneven, loping or shambling gait, but the modified limbs are heavy-hitting weapons that require little skill to master.
Action: Reflexive, the Infected can manifest their enhanced limbs at the start of combat.
Cost: Varies. The Infected gains bonuses based on ATP spent per round to maintain this form; 1 ATP spent means the Infected gains 1 extra Bashing damage towards Brawling attacks. Every three points of ATP become 1 point of Lethal instead.
●●● Wall of Flesh
The Infected are also capable of re-directing their mass inwards to protect their head, torso and chest, becoming bloated objects of impenetrable meat. As a result, limbs wither and become limp while the head often disappears under a protective layer of skin, the Infected becoming completely immobile by their own means while in this form. As a bonus, their corpulent form provides ample cover and protection for their allies to hide behind, should they need to.
Cost: 1-4 ATP per round. The Infected gain bonuses based on ATP spent per round to maintain this form; their skin becomes thick and protective in the process, and 1 point of ATP spent grants the Infected 2 B/1 L Armor, to a max of 8 B/4 L armor.
●●●● Ravenous Reconstruction
In the heat of battle, an Infected with a Flesh subversion doesn’t always need to seek out a doctor after taking damage. By absorbing the body and mass of an enemy’s corpse (through either eating or patching their wounds with flesh torn from the corpse), the Infected is capable of integrating the incoming meat to heal themselves.
Cost: 3 ATP, one corpse.
Dice Pool: Stamina + Flesh
Dramatic Failure: The Infected’s body violently rejects the consumed meat or transplant, inflicting one point of Lethal damage in addition to losing spent ATP.
Failure: The Infected doesn’t manage to heal themselves but the ATP is regained through energy absorbed from the corpse.
Success: The Infected is able to heal one point of Bashing damage for every success, or one point of Lethal for every two.
Exceptional Success: The Infected can heal one point of Aggravated damage with four success, or they can obtain the benefits of a normal success.
●●●●● Body-Snatcher
The Infected can affect more than themselves with their abilities. When performing a Body-Snatcher, the Infected attempts to manually wrestle their opponent into a state of submission. From there, the Infected can re-direct their mass into their arms, forcibly ensnaring the enemy in a tight cocoon made of the Infected’s skin. As a note, once the cocooning process is complete, the Infected is allowed to release the flesh-bag.
Cost: 5 ATP
Dice Pool: None. Once entombed in the sack, the captured opponent faces an extended challenge to escape. They have to achieve a number of successes equal to the Infected’s Stamina + Flesh in order to escape, in an amount of rounds equal to the enemy’s Stamina+1. Should they succeed, the enemy is able to resume combat. Should they fail, the enemy must keep making Stamina rolls until freed or face suffocation.
Decided to keep Gruesome Visage and turned Flesh Cocoon into Body-Snatcher, mainly because there's already that purchasable skill that would do what "flesh cocoon" sounds like it would do. Honestly, Wrecking Ball was inspired by Prototype, Wall of Meat by Akira, and RR by the thought that a monster that patched itself up with a wad of meat taken from a slain enemy would be creepy as hell.
The Flesh skills look great, I like what you did to Gruesome Visage, it's a good 1st-dot skill (not overly powerful, but great for storytelling). Maybe we could add that witnessing the Infected's flesh stretch and distort itself into unnatural shapes adds to the frightening/nauseating effect - the flesh could rearrange like a a Picasso painting, twirls itself inward, mouth and everything; perhaps the skin gets pulled back on the skull
("Is this better?"), or the jaw pulled down to reveal various types of teeth; or the face splits and opens up to reveal the horrific insides.
I'm not so happy happy with the Blood abilities, and one reason is the Vampire connection - if we have a Blood ability we should really treat it differently than the existing game, and I think making it too supernaturally useful gives off that vibe. I think the 3- and 4-dot abilities especially invoke a feeling that they belong into Requiem instead. Bloody Mess looks good (where it says "from the mouth", do you say that it from the wound?). Acidic blood has to happen, but at five dots, with four rounds of preparation "Plasma Burns" seems like a time bomb skill that either succeeds and nets an instant win or not, but will not influence the battle or the story too much otherwise.
Actually, have you got any suggestions for Bone? Because for some reason all Blood skills have been combat abilities. Which would really be more fitting for Bone instead. (Pressure Spikes, for example, would probably translate easily.)
(I feel justified to mess around with Bone (especially the 2nd and 5th levels) since it's mostly about transforming the bones of another person - which seem just too..."magic". I imagine that Pathogen was inspired at least in part by Parasite Eve, where this kind of thing would have worked, because it was a part of the setting that every person already had the Pathogen which could communicate with each other. But I'd cut this in a regular setting. Possibilities to invade and control a person should we want to add them belong elsewhere.)
edited 23rd Dec '10 1:19:23 PM by Vree
raygun goth
Yeah, I agree. One idea I'd been toying with was moving all of those to a particular need to interface or perform some sort of "lesser infection" first (which is why those powers need to you touch your target), like how the tapes in Videodrome are capable of causing hallucinations and giving you brain tumors, and I think moving them out of bone and into their own collection is ultimately for the best. I still like the name "Aztec Surprise."
Going over what I've written, it's obvious that I was in a big rush and was also slapping down things that seemed "cool," whether or not they made sense or would be playable. I was also playing with several ways of doing the arrays and how someone would acquire them, but I settled on the "standard tier" as a way to save time.
This site contains a dump of what I've written. Ignore "the TRUTH," or not (it's for a maybe-unrelated nWoD thing): https://sites.google.com/site/pathogendump/
If anybody wants to edit it, sort it, or what have you, I can apparently add editors and stuff based on their google login or somesuch. If not, a project wiki might be a good idea.
"...Actually I was suddenly worried that a fan will eventually show up and come after me"
Me? Have fans? Surely you jest.
edited 22nd Dec '10 3:30:05 PM by writerthaxton
If that guard used to be an adventurer like me, we have to leave this town right the hell now.
See, I played a lot of City of Heroes and I'm kind of afraid that if I applied Iron-Forged Weapons and Pressure Spikes to Bone it'd end up being a not-so-transparent rip off of their power-set for melee fighters called "Spines", which involves a lot of spikes and bones bursting from the skin and etc. I know it's a weird excuse, and it's probably a lame excuse, but that's what my brain feels fit to believe. Also, keep in mind that what I say is in no way what I expect to be the end result. Tell me it sucks, tell it you want to change the ATP/round cost to whatever. And go ahead and do that; I'm really content with just getting the idea down and figuring out the required rolls. If you can think of a way to improve it, by all means go for it.
Back to my main point. I will gladly think of a few new bone powers (personally I like Aztec Surprise as a killer five-dot ability). However, yeah, it's weird to involve the warping and snapping of the enemy's bones. So I'll get back to you with something I figure out.
Well, you do now.
Videodrome could be an example of a Pathogen with a supernatural Vector where the means of transmission is "viewing". But Videodrome with its hypnotic suggestions seem to belong more into a "psychic powers" themed of game like in "Second Sight". (Some guy on the White Wolf forums has started a "Psychic: The Gifted" idea by the way, though it could use more flavor as well.)
Good man. I see we'll be getting along famously.
Has anyone mentioned the works of Scott Westerfeld already as potential inspiration? Peeps and its sequel seem to gel rather well with this. Especially since the narrator likes to give little essays on disturbing real-life parasites in between chapters.Excellent find. Let me add two others, too:
- Animal Planet ran a series of two-minute shorts called Monsters Inside Me on real-life parasites. Most of these are interviews with patients, and give excellent examples for what an Infected's backstory (and first symptom) may look like.
- Hideshi Hino's The Bug Boy is a good example of one Infected archetype I hope to incorporate, a character metamorphosing into a lower life form a' la Kafka.
Actually just let me examine some of the archetypes here, since I've been putting off doing this for so long. Now, the Infected genre that's been forming for some while now is not neccessarily all of these, but these all had a major influence.
Archetypes:
- Zombie Infected:
- Nuclear Mutant:
- Skin-changer/Shapeshifter:
- Metamorphosis:
- Alien Invader
- Evolutionary
edited 23rd Dec '10 8:57:14 AM by Vree
I give you, more suff on Symptoms. These are not neccessarily suggested changes; they are more like "what else can you do with your Symptoms?" questions.
There are 7 so far; another 3 to 5 is in the making. Let me know what you think. (The final number could be 8 a la Geist, or 2x5/2x6 where they are put in pairs?)
Tell is something that reveals that the Infected is not healthy. Tells usually become evident if the character's Symptom is violated, but can be hidden otherwise.(Looking unhealthy is not usually a problem, but Infected also get into situations where they need to avoid being spotted as the one carrying the Pathogen among a group of people, and someone calling for a doctor out of concern can also cause problems.)
Weaknesses are meant to create a cinematic effect, and also to give the Infected an Achilles heel similar to that of the other "races" (sunligh, silver, cold iron); however, the Infected do not have a shared weakness, but gain separate ones based on their Symptom. A weakness deals Aggregated damage to an Infected. An attempt can be made to guess a weakness with a Science roll, or an Occult roll in rare cases. (This works the same as Occult rolls to guess things about other supernaturals.)
Coughing/Sneezing:
What is happening?: Your lungs are being reformed, probably turning you into an aquatic breather, form a giant gas bag inside, or make you exhale something other than CO 2.
What is affected?: Respiratory system (lungs)
Misdiagnosis: pneumonia, common cold, asthma
Associated hazard: Shortness of breath, drowning.
Tell: Coughing and deeper or higher pitched voice.
Penalties: Cannot Hold Breath; penalty on any Athletics ability that calls for the use of Stamina such as Foot Chase (will be out of breath before long); can't perform Stealth too well (heavy breathing and coughing fits will usually give the person away).
Weakness: The character is especially vulnerable to airborne diseases like the common cold. He has to wear a surgical mask and wash hands regularly (many are active germophobes). [This may be easier in countries where wearing a mask is socially accepted, like Japan.]
Weakness/Cachexy:
What is happening?: It does not matter if you normally have bulking muscles - the body just feels weak, and there is no power behind them.
What is affected?: Muscular system
Associated hazard: Muscle fatigue. (Completely paralyzed & in a wheelchair in the worst case.)
Tell: Character dropping things and tripping more often.
Penalties: Penalty on any Athletics ability that calls for the use of Strenght such as Climbing or Jumping; penalty on Lifting/Moving Objects (even small ones); penalty on Breaking Objects.
Weakness: ? The presence of something makes the character lose all strenght and unable to spend ATP or use Subversions (Kryptonite radiation?)
Headache:
What is happening?: The Pathogen is modifying the character's brain. This may result in increased intelligence and reflexes, or even psychic powers, but risks damaging it in the process.
What is affected?: Nervous system
Associated hazard: Brain damage.
Misdiagnosis: migraine, depression
Penalties: Minus dice on Composure and Manipulation rolls.
Weakness: Noise. High frequency sounds always damage the character (sonar weapons, amplifiers, and opera singers).
Dermis:
What is affected?: Integumentary system
Associated hazard: Damage. The Dermis take +1 Bashing Damage from any physical attack. Itching may also give penalties due to the distraction.
Tell: Scratching, avoidance of touching things and avoiding exposure to sunlight, bandages, scars, wearing gloves.
Weakness: Choose a specific material (gold; moonlight; radiation; water etc.) When encountered, mere skin contact is enough to cause damage to the character. Just touching the skin will deal 1 point of Bashing Damage (the person will jump back as a reflexive action). If used as a weapon, it upgrades the normal penalty.
Hunger/Weight loss:
What is happening?: The character is drawing all nutrition from the rest of the body to feed itself.
What is affected?: Digestive system
Associated hazard: Deprivation. The Famished must eat 3x the normal amount or suffer the effects of malnutrition. Your character must buy food or use the Foraging skill to find more, even if it means stealing. You can use Streetwise to locate places where you can find food in an urban area, and Survival when out in the wild.
Misdiagnosis: anorexia, smoking, intestinal worms
Weakness: Poisons. Also, pick a specific type of food (human flesh, strange mushroom, water and sugar, broccoli etc.) The character has a special dependence on this food, and must consume it regularly, and its mere presence may drive him into frenzy when hungry.
Insomnia:
What is happening?: The Pathogen is invading the mind.
Associated hazard: Fatigue. The character must sleep for twice as many hours each day or start to suffer from sleep deprivation. This works the same as Fatigue (Wo D Rulebook p. 179) but the cumulative -1 penalty only affects rolls related to Mental attributes (Intelligence, Wits and Resolve). Due to this, reflexes (Reaction to Surprise, Defense), Perception, Memorizing and Remembering are all more difficult. Hallucinations, difficulty to differentiate between dreams and reality may set in if the player goes on for several days with only normal sleep.
Weakness: Drugs. While harmless for most others, they transport the Insomniac into the nightmarish world he is trying to avoid. (Panic, seizures, uncontrollable movement, self-destructive actions and permanent derangements are all likely.)
Fever:
What is happening?: The Pathogen is using the host's body as its energy reactor to produce more ATP.
What is affected?: Thermoregulation.
Associated hazard: Temperature Extremes. Even a few degrees drop is enough for the character to get gethypothermia-like penalties.
Weakness: Extreme cold.
(Note: I have been searching for/making advanced rules for Temperature Extremes; turns out that there is one in "Second Sight" under "Thermokinesis".)
edited 28th Dec '10 2:01:01 AM by Vree
-The "Infected are rare" proposal-
Infected are a minority; most people will turn into Lost Ones immediately after the infection takes a full effect, without a chance to reach some sort of compromise with the Pathogen.
One theory is that the Pathogen is generally benevolent; however, it has a hard time bonding with people and it inadvertedly destroys some in the process, or only changes them half successfully, and this is what creates the Lost Ones and Chimera. The other theory is that normally, the Pathogen would turn everyone into mindless slaves, but does not succeed completely with some people who survive with their sanity intact. A third theory is that it is all part of the Infection's plan: it requires drones and workers as well as sleeper agents or queens.
Why your character got "chosen" should never be quite clear in a backstory - even if your character thinks that he knows the answer - but kept generally vague, or implied. For example, a character may believe that he survived due to the conditions under which they got the infection (eg. while ill, drunk, sleeping, with their pet, etc.). Some may have managed to hinder their Infection in some way (eg. managed to injure the parasite before it invaded them). Maybe the character just had more willpower or personality than most people. Of course, this may be just wishful thinking. Perhaps some people are more naturally more resilient to the Infection than others.
Whatever the reason, the Pathogen affects everyone differently, so what worked for one character may not do it for another.
-The Infected's Mask-
Like other supernaturals, Infected can pass as humans. In the Infected's case it's explained by Bizarre Alien Biology - all the weird crap is on the inside, which can come up as a nasty surprise to someone trying to stick a knife into the character, but makes him undetectable under normal conditions simply by looking.
On the other hand, all Infected tend to look at least a bit ill - see Tell above. How severe this is depends on Fusion.
- Fusion
- 9-10 The character looks like an extremely fit and healthy human. He or she has great reflexes, smooth skin, mental claritiy etc. It may even be suspicious to those who have known him before.
- 7-8 The character looks like a normal human. The Symptom is in effect, but it only makes the character look a little tired or overworked.
- 5-6 The character looks like a sickly human. Others pull away instinctively to protect themselves from catching the disease.
- 3-4 The character looks terminally ill and the visible physical changes are all over his body.
- 1-2 The character looks like some sort of mutant. He cannot pass for a normal human any longer; the way he looks just draws attention.
edited 23rd Dec '10 12:13:53 PM by Vree
Bone Suggestions:
I like Rend. I do like the prospect of transforming everything above the metacarpal bones into slicing/dicing killing machines, but it doesn't exactly make sense for them to straight-up deal aggravated damage in the sense of Brawling. They're not elegant tools, they're not katanas, they're monstrosities of nature; brutish, sharp and jagged weapons with blunt edges, sharp tips and a hankering for blood (despite what Wolverine says). It would be a lot more handy (pun completely intended) as a two-dot power that deals out Lethal in melee. So something like this:
●● Knuckle-Dusters:
The Infected transforms the phalanges of their hands into a jagged collection of sharp bone and calcium, giving an extra bit of brutality to their unarmed blows.
This can then go one of two ways.
A: You pop the ATP and Bob's your uncle, you're now capable of dealing Lethal in hand-to-hand fights. So long as you keep the ATP flowing, you're the world's most dangerous gardener.
B: You have to roll, and the more successes you get, the nastier do your weapons. X success nets you +2 Lethal to all blows, exceptional successes double it, failing makes it look like you suck at cracking knuckles, fail horribly and you'll never play the piano again.
I would suggest something along the line of an Exoskeleton ability, but all that's covered nicely in Bone Body. Maybe just remove the bit about the Talons for one success, depending on how/if Knuckle-Dusters is used. All applies nicely as a three dot as well.
With the modification of Rend, that leaves a suitably empty hole for the purpose of a four dot. I am still admittedly reticent to copy Pressure Spikes into this role; you may disagree with me. My own personal suggestion would be a "ground spike" ability. Essentially, the Infected would take a moment to focus their abilities, before stomping on the ground, slapping a wall, etc. It more or less would cause a tremor of bone to travel through that medium and burst through the ground at the enemy's feet, injuring them. Again, would take a small sec to flesh out, and that is simply my alternative suggestion.
Finally, had to re-read Aztec Surprise. Like the idea, not so sure about the execution. I remember a Finnish/Norwegian torture method, the Blood Eagle. It involved the breaking of the spine and forcing the ribcage open in a mockery of an eagle, following by direct damage to the lungs.
●●●●● Blood Eagle/Reaper Man/Flesh Thresher/some other punny or symbolic name.
The Infected takes a moment to focus their power and control over their medium, launching a number of serrated bone limbs through their torso directly at their target to restrain and injure. Once attached, the limbs fly into a violent frenzy, attempting to carve open their subject and shatter their ribs and spine forward.
This can go one of two ways.
A: Single attack. If it hurts, your enemy should take their dying moments to roll up a new character while they can still see.
Or my preference, B: Contested/Extended roll. Works like being grappled by a merciless torture machine; either you're hacked to bits or you manage to withstand/escape punishment. Has the propensity to deliver an amazing amount of pain as a result of a grapple roll, or a few nasty cuts before they break free, but it has the benefit of providing a bloody massacre through bone-limb dissection sprouting from ragged holes in the Infected's chest.
Comments/feedback required, depending on what is liked/disliked, will work out mechanics/schematics soon/later.
edited 23rd Dec '10 2:10:12 AM by pkfan2004
raygun goth
Hm. I like the idea that the pathogen could be benevolent, it just doesn't know that what it's doing is wrong. Parasites have a tendency to become symbiotic given time; it works out better in the long run if the host is healthy.
Rend's original source was the musing about how HPV looked particularly nasty, and the if it was hard bone, what being hit by it would be like. That, and vamps have a much lower dot aggravated brawling attack.
edited 23rd Dec '10 11:03:16 AM by writerthaxton
If that guard used to be an adventurer like me, we have to leave this town right the hell now.
Gullimero Del Toro's book The Strain has an interesting take on parasites as well. Sort of a re-telling of Dracula but the source is prehistoric parasites that gradually warp and mutate the infectee's body to better suit their purposes.
^You should tell that to his face, I'm pretty sure that he'd appreciate the praise.