Aren't they all? New Crowner 10/17/11: Incredibly Lame Pun

The original purpose of Incredibly Lame Pun was potholes. For reasons unknown to me, that purpose was changed instead of creating a new page for a new trope.

If it was, then it's a bad idea and should be changed. Whatever it was originally intended for, now it's just used as "look, I made a pun and want to call attention to it"

That is what it was originally intended for. Along the line, someone had the brilliant idea to change it to an actual trope.

edited 10th Nov '10 11:00:37 AM by SpaceWolves

"That is what it was originally intended for."

Then that's bad and should be changed because it's distrcting and adds nothing of value. If it's obviously a pun, then we already know it's a pun and we don't need our attention called to it with a pothole. If it's not an obvious pun, then we have Stealth Pun or Visual Pun that you can pothole to.

Easier said than done. We already changed what the page is for, and that didn't change the usage. You can't change the past, and as long as Incredibly Lame Pun is a bluelink people will keep using it for what they're accustomed to. One way or another, the trope needs to go someplace else.

edited 10th Nov '10 12:35:18 PM by Shale

What about Obvious Lame Pun for the "I know its bad but I said it anyway" crowd?

Then do what we did with I Am Not Making This Up: add Incredibly Lame Pun to the Permanent Red Link Club and recreate the "characters in-universe complain about how bad a pun was" trope under a different title. (I vote for Terrible Pun, myself.)

I agree with you, but it'll bring about a shitstorm of epic proportions.

This should not go to the Red Link Club there is plenty of use here trope wise... If we do red link it tropers will find something else to fit in its place.

Making it like Sarcasm Mode would be the best IMO.

The problem with trying to fix this is that people are going to keep potholing their puns to something, and it might as well be Incredibly Lame Pun.

As for the trope that someone turned the page into, it seems like it should have a different title, because it doesn't make sense to have a trope with a title about puns when it is actually about the reaction to puns. It's understandable that there would be misuse there.

...why is this even a question? Incredibly Lame Pun was created to be Pot Holed to in conversation, and now there's an issue because people are potholing to it? It seems rather obvious that the problem lies with whoever turned it into a trope that doesn't belong under that name.

"If it's obviously a pun, then we already know it's a pun and we don't need our attention called to it with a pothole."

And what if it is not-so-obviously a pun?

EDIT: And who's "we?" Some may get puns others missed.

edited 10th Nov '10 1:33:24 PM by neoYTPism

We have a page for potholing puns.

edited 10th Nov '10 3:16:59 PM by SpaceWolves

We have a page for potholing puns.

And people aren't using it. They're using Incredibly Lame Pun. So the question is, do you let the page follow its use, or do you keep fighting the tide?

I would think that the fundamental question here is twofold. The first: Do we want tropers potholing puns to a generic "pun" page? The second: If yes, should that page be Incredibly Lame Pun?

Raso: Not necessarily. Compare I Am Not Making This Up. The page was Permanent Red Link Club'd to keep people from potholing it, and the actual trope was moved to "Not Making This Up" Disclaimer so that people could still use it. Just moving the trope page to a new title seems to be sufficient to discourage inappropriate potholing as long as the original pothole target is redlinked.

Haven: People will only pothole things if there's something there to pothole to. Again, compare I Am Not Making This Up. Simply saying "stop potholing this" doesn't work, but redlinking the pothole target and saying "don't pothole it" did.

neo YT Pism: If it's not obviously a pun, then pothole to Stealth Pun or Visual Pun as appropriate, like I said in the post you quoted.

Rouge 7: I personally don't think we should have a generic "this is a pun!" pothole at all, for all the reasons I've already mentioned. If we're going to have a pothole it might as well be Incredibly Lame Pun since that's what people are already using. I have no idea if there's any actual concensus on either of these points.

Really, given that this whole subject seems like an issue with fairly widespread consequences for the wiki as a whole, I'm not sure a simple Trope Repair Shop thread has the "authority" to make a decision on it... but at the same time, I don't know where else to take it.

I would think the admins would have the final say on that @ Jovian

But again, like someone else pointed out the question is both whether or not a generic pothole for puns is a good idea, and whether or not that pothole should be Incredibly Lame Pun. Frankly, I think if the answer to the former is yes, then so should the answer to the latter; ILP is what tropers have gotten used to as the generic pothole for puns, it used to be intended as the generic pothole for puns, and I see no use fighting the uphill battle against it if we are to have a pothole for puns.

I don't know if we should have a generic pothole for puns, but I think we should definitely have a trope for when puns are referred to as lame in-universe, and I don't think it should be the same trope.

Even if we decide to keep Incredibly Lame Pun the way it is, eventually Fast Eddie will get sick of seeing the potholes and complaints, purge them all, redlink the page and make another page that's limited to in-fiction examples. The only thing we can do is take bets on when it'll happen.

edited 11th Nov '10 3:03:32 PM by SpaceWolves

If the in-work effect is to cause a Collective Groan, then a better name would be Groan Inducing Pun.

edited 11th Nov '10 4:27:23 PM by DragonQuestZ

They don't all induce a collective groan, though. Some of them simply produce an eyeroll, or an "I don't believe [you/I] said that" or any of various others reactions.

edited 11th Nov '10 4:42:08 PM by Madrugada

Since the point is the reaction as well as the pun, then at least some reaction should be in the name. Groan would just stand in for all those things.

edited 11th Nov '10 4:48:10 PM by DragonQuestZ

Haven: People will only pothole things if there's something there to pothole to. Again, compare I Am Not Making This Up. Simply saying "stop potholing this" doesn't work, but redlinking the pothole target and saying "don't pothole it" did.

Before Incredibly Lame Pun was designated as the thing to pothole puns to, it was either Incredibly Lazy Pun (hence the original text, "You just need to change two letters and all will be well") or Just For Pun. If this happens, it'll likely go back to the latter, since A Worldwide Punomenon sounds more like World of Ham or something—a world where, like Xanth, puns are just everywhere for some reason. Definitely not a single pun, despite the redirect. Anyway, I don't see the reason to start spinning the pothole treadmill again when everyone's already used to this.

As for moving the content of the page: I like Groan Inducing Pun, but I think we might want to just take the trope that Incredibly Lame Pun was turned into and lump it with Collective Groan.

edited 11th Nov '10 5:29:58 PM by Haven

Groan would be a hilarious pothole target (if such a page is created) or redirect to Incredibly Lame Pun (if not).

"Anyway, I don't see the reason to start spinning the pothole treadmill again when everyone's already used to this."

Why do you assume there would be a "pothole treadmill"? I'm proposing we do literally the exact same thing we did for I Am Not Making This Up, which seems to have turned out pretty well.