> Neverwinter Nights
> Monk
> Weapon Finesse
So basically NWN is D&D.
Face Time
Anyone recommend Borderlands yet?
"Hipsters: the most dangerous gang in the US." - Pacific Mackerel
If Borderlands is an RPG, I'll show you a green dog.
Neutral Evil Jerkass
So basically NWN is D&D.
◊. Not that Borderlands is an RPG, but you should find some other way of expressing incredulity. 
edited 22nd Apr '11 8:25:54 PM by ARiS
Live forever or die trying.
Face Time
^^Well, it's hard to say that it's just an FPS.
"Hipsters: the most dangerous gang in the US." - Pacific Mackerel
Actually Magus, now that I think about it some more, Fallout: New Vegas really would be a great gateway WRPG without the necessity to play fallout 3- wide variety of choice and consequence, dialogue mechanics that actually account for multiple different skills as opposed to a win all Speech option, combat that is heavily reliant on stats and even if you're unfamiliar with FP Ses, the VATS mechanic can autoaim for you while (unlike fallout 3) not being an easy win all button because it's heavily stat reliant and balanced out as opposed to player skill reliant (just put points in Agility and get food that regens AP).
And, again, it's the game that's gotten me interested in old school rpgs too, so there's that.
And yes, a bioware game has all the elements of a western RPG, but again, this is a personal call, but BW games are almost their own subgenre with almost JRP Gish storytelling and characterization, so I do not feel they properly reflect the rest of the genre.
Noodle Implements FTW!
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
The term you're looking for is Roguelike. Not being content with being both the Ur-Example and Trope Codifier, Rogue also decided to be the Trope Namer =)
On a more serious note, I didn't accuse you of anything. It's just that these sorts of things tend to happen regarding wRPGs and Bio Ware quite often wherever I go and I've grown slightly tired of this. Can we all settle on something out of the Gold Box and give it a rest?
Videogames do not make you a worse person... Than you already are.
Come to think of it, how should I approach a WRPG?
Because I know lately I've been really self-conscious about Lost Forever features and plotlines, and that seems to be somewhat incompatible with the non-linearity that a lot of you are talking about as being a major feature of WRP Gs.
With a good WRPG, expect to go in and be able to shape the world around you, you should be expecting to be making choices that are both meaningful (a good wrpg should have choices that are more intensive than "Do I give the orphans my spare food? OR DO I SET THEM ON FIRE!") and should have a fairly significant effect on the world and the quest they are in. Quests will have different ways to solve based on dialogue or sneaking around to grab a vital piece of info or just flat out killing certain characters.
There will be a case of some plotlines being lost forever (e.g. killing off characters as part of one quest and losing the quests linked with the character you killed) but that's par for the course as often those plotlines wouldn't be compatible with the story you end up shaping anyway. Plus it gives you more replayability for subsequent playthroughs.
Also your choices should lead to different endings but the endings shouldn't be seen as "Good" "bad" and "nonstandard game over" but rather just different outcomes based on the way you shaped your character (whether said character is based on your own beliefs or is a character you designed with their own personality)
Actually, if you've played Shin Megami Tensei Devil Survivor, that'd be a good idea of what WRPGS are like. What with dialogue options shaping which ending you pick and what kind of character the MC is, many characters possibly dying based on the choices you made and the people you talked to and multiple endings each with their own pros and cons.
Never played the Megaten series.
Should I approach WRP Gs like I would approach sandbox games?
Neutral Evil Jerkass
Do what you would normally do. Talk to people, pay attention. That's all there is to it. You might lose access to some missions due to prior actions, but those missions normally aren't what you'd be doing if you disagreed with its predecessors. E.g. if you don't think murder is okay and don't help assassins, don't expect to be able to follow up on their plotline.
Live forever or die trying.
Pretending to be human
What do you mean by "approach"? I thought you just follow the instructions, that's all.
Noodle Implements FTW!
So long as it's a sandbox RPG, yes. There are wRPGs that are as linear as a cinematic FPS, and this does not detract from their value as a game (or status as a wRPG), but irritates you to no end if you come in expecting sandboxiness.
The key thing isn't sandboxiness, it's tactical battles, as opposed to the more gimmicky and minigame-like battles in JRPGs.
Ding-ding! Going down...
Shadow Scythe, what WRP Gs are you playing? 'Cause I've got to get a hold of one of them.
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^Ha, yeah I've given a pretty overly idealistic description of WRP Gs eh?
Atm I'm playing NWN 2 (which is ok although I want to hurry up and finish it so I can get on to this MOTB that everyone seems to be going on about), Twitcher, Planescape: Torment (which bugged out hard on me so I guess I'll have to patch it up with stuff and fanmods before redoing it from scratch, I was really impressed by the massive amount of dialogue options I'd seen thus far even if the combat was a little tricky to get used to) and occasionally exploring the Mojave some more in New Vegas.
Out of which New Vegas fits quite nicely into that description imo and is basically the reason I'm going back and slogging through all these older rpgs- and it's pretty much the reason I expect all that from an rpg as well.
edited 25th Apr '11 4:58:46 AM by ShadowScythe
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I have to disagree that Fallout 1 and 2 are great gateway RPG not because they are bad games or not repressentative but that for almost anyone that have played any game made in the last few years the UI is pretty much awful, but if you can overcome that It is actually a pretty good gateway.
In the quiet of the night, the Neocount of Merentha mused: How long does evolution take, among the damned?
The first two Fallouts are such simple games from a mechanical standpoint I don't think you can really deplore their interfaces. About the only odd part is their reliance on contextual menus, which is pretty easy to get used to, and the only really annoying part (long-term) is the inventory interface, since it lacks a scrollbar.
What's wrong with the Fallout interface? It's pretty simple, an information bar along the bottom and three screens for the map, stats and pip boy. It's all pretty intuitive, and if you get confused... well, that's what the manual is for.
It's a hell of a lot better than Fallout 3's interface, which needs about a dozen different screens for basically the same stuff.
^He was talking about how you have to in first game scroll the inventory list slowly to get the item in the bottom of the list.
Albion can be a good gateway to wrpg, no character creation(if I rememebr correctly), good story, interesting characters, quite linear and turn based combat.
As already stated the first 2 fallout are both good gateways, this time character creation is much more important (but not too complicated), and sets out how you want to deal with problems you will encounter (in the first at least, in the second is much easier to be able to do pretty much everything), less linear, expecially in the way that your decisions will affect the outcome of the different communities you'll encounter.
Planescape: Torment is, in my opinion, probably the best rpg ever, expecially from the roleplaying side, but you'll have to go deep on the not-linear side (side quests, exploring the game, meddle with random being problems, making many ethical choiches) to really enjoy the game, is based on 2nd ed D&D and combat is bg style: real time but pausable, but isn't really an important part of this game.
Since nobody talked about them yet I will mention the 2 Icewind Dale: the character creation is a bit complex (you have to flesh out a whole Dn D party), the game is quite linear and combat oriented, but they have a very good story, with interesting and compelling npc (the enemies), since they share the same engine combat is bg style (pausable real time), the good thing is that since you're the one designing the whole party you can decide what you want to have (more nuke magic, more buffs, less magic as a whole, etc.), first game is Dn D 2nd ed., second is 3rd ed.
edited 25th Apr '11 7:05:44 AM by Fire
insert title here
gateway wrpg? but you just described a typical jrpg...
as for my two cents, given the stipulation of slow, manageable combat, I'd have to say Baldurs gate and other games hat run the same engine. You can pause them whenever you want to to safely assess the situation and assign commands to your party member, and there's a combat log so you'll always be able to find out exactly what happened even if you weren't paying attention.
As for Lost Forever stuff, well, making choices kinda comes with tthe genre. However, one of the main draws of wrpgs(for me, at least) is character building. You'll likely play the game again to see how building your character differently changes things(in addition to using different party members), and then you get to try out the stuff you missed last time!
XP granted for befriending a giant magical spider!
^^^ A patch adds mousewheel support.
Mass Effect 2 made a wRPG fan of me. I recommend the PS 3 version if you've got one, this way you can make a backstory without having to play the first game.
Those who accept their fate find happiness; those who defy it, glory.