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Bakuman
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Bakuman:

 476 Anarchy, Fri, 16th Jul '10 6:03:29 AM from Perak, Malaysia
just a medicine seller
Kids? You mean kids who managed to get published in the most popular shonen manga while they were still in high school? Yes, kids.

They're college age, anyway. And I think the assistant who pointed out the overuse of tones is a college graduate. So... yeah. Not exactly "kids".

Plus, this is shonen manga. Why would we want to watch the average "kid" who knows nothing about tones? Of course we want to see the rare "kid" who's awesome at art.

Jesus as in Revelations
^ He's talking about the readers.

^^ It's subconscious

And we already called it, Niizuma and Iwase ending together. They have such burning passion...

I can't wait for the doujins...

edited 16th Jul '10 6:07:19 AM by RawPower

 478 Anarchy, Fri, 16th Jul '10 6:09:30 AM from Perak, Malaysia
just a medicine seller
OHHHH okay. Yeah, it's subconscious. People typically don't know why they like a work. That's why we have things like literary analysis and critical analysis and all that stuff.

Jesus as in Revelations
Exactly: we point out exactly what makes us tick.

Oh, BTW, your post need either of these potholes: it's intent is not clear.
 480 Anarchy, Fri, 16th Jul '10 6:28:18 AM from Perak, Malaysia
just a medicine seller
D: I was being sincere. ;A;

Jesus as in Revelations
^_^
I also find it hard to believe tones make such a big difference anyway.

I don't claim to be good in art, I am an amateur at best, but I think tones aren't that important. IMO the most important thing is the character faces and poses. We all know how "Bleach does not have any background" its still probably the top 10 best selling selling manga in Japan and USA.
 
 483 Anarchy, Fri, 16th Jul '10 8:09:42 AM from Perak, Malaysia
just a medicine seller
Oh, I don't think it was just the tones. I think the tones was simply what made Mashiro realize that his art needed an upgrade. I think he changed much more than just the tones in his art, it just wasn't explicitly states in the dialogue what exactly he had changed.

 484 Gilphon, Fri, 16th Jul '10 10:38:50 AM from The Third Sound Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Scum
It's actually not a big difference. It's just enough of a difference.
"Canada Day is over, and now begins the endless dark of the Canada Night."
 485 Anarchy, Fri, 16th Jul '10 3:29:03 PM from Perak, Malaysia
just a medicine seller
He did say he was going to change it gradually so that the transition wouldn't be too jarring.

But yeah, I do think that art and visual appeal is definitely part of what makes series popular. (Not to say I haven't seen series with fabulous art but with terrible storylines.) Take Liar Game and Death Note for example. I'd argue that Liar Game has a better sense of realistic logic and Chessmastery that is actually based in real world psychology, but Death Note is by far more popular. Why? Charismatic characters and beatiful art. I mean, Liar Game's art is decent, but it's nothing to write home about.

edited 16th Jul '10 3:31:34 PM by Anarchy

 486 Clarste, Fri, 16th Jul '10 3:40:50 PM Relationship Status: Non-Canon
Three Steps
Art is a huge part of making a manga popular. A lot of people don't even give series they find visually unappealing a chance, and a crappy series can keep a consistent readership just by being easy on the eyes.

In this case, the problem was most likely something along the lines of "it's not fun to read because it's too dark".

 487 Gilphon, Fri, 16th Jul '10 3:42:35 PM from The Third Sound Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Scum
More like 'fun to read despite being too dark', I think, since they are quite popular.
"Canada Day is over, and now begins the endless dark of the Canada Night."
 488 Anarchy, Fri, 16th Jul '10 3:45:49 PM from Perak, Malaysia
just a medicine seller
^ QFT.

^^ But how do you explain series like Bleach being so popular? IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. just bugs me

Well, as far I know both Naruto and One Piece are more popular in Japan. Even in US, Naruto seems to be more popular over all then Bleach. Also, Bleach art is simple, that is good for a shonen.

Anyway, have anyone noticed there is a case of 'serious comedy' in that chapter? I remember someone mentioning the style of the manga change a bit to mimic the series they are writing in the moment.

 490 Anarchy, Sat, 17th Jul '10 5:38:47 AM from Perak, Malaysia
just a medicine seller
That's a really interesting point.

But I think that the serious humor they were referring to in PCP is more about the nature of the situation being funny, even though the people are being deadly serious.

Whereas in Bakuman itself the people are more like Deadpan Snarker. Or something.

edited 17th Jul '10 5:39:03 AM by Anarchy

Am I the only one that sees a parallel with how Bakuman itself started with subdued drawings and went more and more shonen-esque as time passed?
 
^^I meant the scene where the two, dead serious, said the difference between the +Natural and PCP is the +.

 493 Neo Crimson, Sat, 17th Jul '10 7:07:38 AM from behind your lines.
Your army sucks.
Am I the only one that sees a parallel with how Bakuman itself started with subdued drawings and went more and more shonen-esque as time passed?

I always thought that it was because the artist was so used to a realistic art style in his past works. That he had a hard time making things more stylized at first.
Sorry, I can't hear you from my FLYING METAL BOX!
 494 Anarchy, Sat, 17th Jul '10 8:08:57 AM from Perak, Malaysia
just a medicine seller
^^If you look at the panel more closely, you'll see that it's been drawn in what the author obviously considers a comedic style.

Again, "serious humour" that they were talking about refers to a "situation", like crashing a van into a media station, that is humorous because of the nature of the situation, that the characters take dead seriously. In that case, Takagi and Mashiro should have been drawn in an uber realistic, super serious style, not the distorted "comedy" style.

^I agree. He obviously finds it challenging to use a more stylized style, and the stylization in the beginning can come across as a bit contrived at times. But he's settling into the style better now and I think it's working very well actually. I like to see him Playing Against Type.

Still think Hikaru no Go was when the beauty of his art was at its peak though. I feel that it degenerated just a little in the second half of Death Note.

edited 17th Jul '10 8:11:30 AM by Anarchy

Jesus as in Revelations
^ Seconded.

I had a look at that Gin Tama. Maybe that's what they mean by serious comedy, but I didn't find it funny at all: it's too physical.

Sengoku Basara on the other hand has incredibly hilarious scenes that are hilarious precisely because of how seriously the protagonsits take them. Especially the strategic meetings of the RED team. Although the BLU team's Gratuitous English that is delievered with perfectly straight faces, and the shameless pompadour hearcuts they wear...

Wait...

I'm laughing just by remembering it...

And yes, it's not an "exagerated opening": the fights in this anime looks like this ALL THE TIME!

Yes, the leader of the BLU team wields SIX KATANAS AT THE SAME TIME. Zoro Ronroa, You Suck...

edited 18th Jul '10 7:31:40 AM by RawPower

 496 Anarchy, Sun, 18th Jul '10 9:47:55 AM from Perak, Malaysia
just a medicine seller
...holy shit. I need to watch this.

Jesus as in Revelations
^ ... Aaaaan the Sexism In Anime thread will have more new material... My God, What Have I Done? tongue
^^^ Wow. My ears are bleeding. Why would anyone sane choose such a song as an opening? Why?
 
Jesus as in Revelations

Because they share a sense of aesthetics that is incompatible with yours?
^ STOOOOOOOOOOOOOP. PLEASE, STOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP.
 
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