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TamH70 Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
#14551: May 20th 2016 at 2:37:30 PM

The Japan Air Lines 747 that went down decades ago lost its entire vertical tail surface before the crash.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Airlines_Flight_123 This was due to a completely borked repair on the rear bulkhead, which failed, and took out the tail plane with it.

Maybe something similar may have happened to this jet, I don't know.

Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#14552: May 20th 2016 at 2:39:00 PM

Satellite imagery shows no evidence of any explosions.

"Yup. That tasted purple."
TamH70 Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
#14553: May 20th 2016 at 2:43:49 PM

Would that include the kind of thing that an explosive decompression taking out the rear bulkhead?

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#14554: May 20th 2016 at 2:44:14 PM

The kind of small explosion I am considering will not show up on a satellite, though...

It's probably not an incident like in Flight 123 - good thing too, I've seen documentaries based on that disaster and it's one of the most horrifying things imaginable.

eta: A bulkhead blowout will almost certainly not show up on satellite.

edited 20th May '16 2:44:51 PM by SeptimusHeap

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#14555: May 20th 2016 at 3:58:44 PM

Follow up: Rumors in German news media are that there was smoke on the plane prior to the contact loss.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#14556: May 20th 2016 at 4:06:55 PM

Do we have a source?

"Yup. That tasted purple."
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#14557: May 20th 2016 at 4:14:50 PM

CNN.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#14558: May 20th 2016 at 4:25:40 PM

As I said in the Middle East thread over in OTC, is anyone else getting a Swissair 111 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swissair_Flight_111 ) vibe from all this?

edited 20th May '16 8:25:40 PM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
AFP Since: Mar, 2010
#14559: May 20th 2016 at 9:38:00 PM

IIRC, there was a 737 in the US that went down when the rudder malfunctioned, jamming to one side. The effect was to slew the plane hard enough to flip the plane (which I think might happen if the sudden spin caused one of the wings to stall out).

Imca (Veteran)
#14560: May 21st 2016 at 12:34:54 AM

Acars reported a flight computer failure in its last two messages as well as smoke.

Sounds a bit like an electrical fire to me, not a terroist attack, since I really doubt a bomb that did not cause a mid air breakup would nuke the computers.... since those are normaly in the nose aren't they?

Electrical fire burns the computers and then due to fly by wire the plane becomes uncontrolable? Or is there a backup system for that kind of event?

edited 21st May '16 12:36:03 AM by Imca

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#14562: May 21st 2016 at 12:54:56 AM

Smoke was the first warning on the Swissair flight. The loss of displays and the like only happened shortly before the crash and was (presumably) the reason for it.

A fire in the electrical systems is not likely to be due to bombing, at best it could be sabotage (has there ever been such a thing as a non-bomb non-device sabotage?).

As for fire incapacitating the control systems, yes that is possible. Redundancy doesn't help because all systems are located in the same part of the plane, typically (zonal hazard).

edited 21st May '16 12:56:31 AM by SeptimusHeap

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Imca (Veteran)
#14563: May 21st 2016 at 1:14:49 AM

Slightly diffrent topic.

But why does the tail on the RQ-1 point down any way?

I have never seen another aircraft with that feature, not even another dront, it is an interesting design..... whats the point of it?

Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#14564: May 21st 2016 at 4:37:18 AM

Apparently the original Predator design was to be capable of being submarine-launched. That's no longer the case for today's Predator, at least that we know of, so the retention of the tail design was a case of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apacalypse. from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apacalypse.
#14565: May 21st 2016 at 6:00:00 AM

I wouldn't take that at value. The two articles the guy links to support his claim make only one mention of submarines and that is as list of several possible platforms not the intended platform in question. Add to it a quick search of V Tail Aircraft including Inverted designs shows two UAV designs before Predator and an Ultra light craft. There is even a late WWII German Emergency Fighter Plane Project craft that had an inverted v-tail. Basically it isn't a new design and has nothing to do with submarines.

Who watches the watchmen?
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#14566: May 21st 2016 at 1:35:48 PM

Military news from Flightglobal:

Meteor introduction transforms Swedish air defence

Sweden’s air force has begun fielding the new MS20-standard software for its Saab Gripen C/D fleet, representing a significant increase in operational capability.

The process of introducing the standard began recently, with MS20 adding MBDA’s Meteor beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile and Boeing’s GBU-39 small diameter bomb to the single-engined fighter’s suite of weapons. Other enhancements include enhanced Link 16 capability for situational awareness, a new data link added to enhance capability during close air support missions, expanded functionality for the pilot’s helmet-mounted sight, an infrared reconnaissance pod and an automatic ground collision avoidance system.

According to Swedish air force chief Maj Gen Mats Helgesson, the Meteor’s addition is of particular significance. “From our perspective that’s a game-changer,” he says. “This is something that we have invested lots of money in, and makes the C/D a really potent air defender again.”

Swedish aircraft have flown with the weapon, but it has not yet been carried during a quick reaction alert sortie, he confirms. The air force is seeing a similar requirement for such activity so far this year as in 2015, when around 330 missions were launched.

“We are the first air force operating the Meteor,” Helgesson notes, with the long-range system also to be introduced on France’s Dassault Rafales and Eurofighter Typhoons flown by Germany, Italy, Spain and the UK. "We are not completely ready with all the tactics, but it is fielded."

Up to 16 wingkit-equipped GBU-39 bombs can also be carried following the MS20 update, using four-round launchers for the 110kg (250lb) strike weapon.

Following its introduction with the Swedish air force, the new software standard will also be available for adoption by other Gripen C/D operators, which include the Czech Republic, Hungary, South Africa and Thailand. And despite the roll-out of the company’s new-generation E-model jet, Saab’s head of Gripen, Jerker Ahlqvist, says the development path for the current version “goes well into the next 10 years”.

PICTURES: Saab rolls out first Gripen E fighter

Rolled out at the Swedish manufacturer's Linköping site in Sweden on 18 May, aircraft 39-8 is the first of three test aircraft which will support the Gripen E programme. It will be handed over to the flight test department at the site "this summer", and is on track to make its debut flight before the end of this year, the company says. It will be used initially to verify the evolved design's general systems, airframe and aerodynamics. The additional two Swedish test assets are already in different stages of structural assembly.

One test aircraft will also be manufactured for Brazil, with this to undergo around one year of flight testing in Sweden before being transferred to a new facility at local partner Embraer's Gavião Peixoto site late this decade.

Sweden has ordered 60 Gripen Es, while Brazil will acquire an initial batch of 36: 28 single-seat NG examples and eight twin-seat aircraft, including locally-assembled units.

Speaking at the roll-out, Brazilian air force commander Gen Brig Nivaldo Luiz Rossato described the development of the advanced combat aircraft as "a significant milestone in the history of both countries." He adds: "The Gripen NG will represent a major advance to face any threat to airspace sovereignty. These fighters will be the backbone of the Brazilian air force."

Powered by a GE Aviation F414 turbofan engine, the Gripen E will offer increased range, payload and endurance performance over the legacy Gripen C/D and also have updated avionics, electronic warfare systems and an active electronically scanned array radar.

"This is the only fighter programme on time and on budget," says Ulf Nilsson, Saab's head of aeronautics. Initial operational capability is planned to be achieved by the Swedish air force in 2021, with full capability to be declared two years later.

Sikorsky HH-60W team moves into detailed design phase

The latest variant of the Sikorsky UH-60 Black Hawk is moving into the detailed design phase after successfully passing an air vehicle preliminary design review (PDR) by the US government.

The US Air Force is buying 112 HH-60W Combat Rescue Helicopters to replace the HH-60G Pave Hawk that was introduced under the Reagan administration in the 1980s. The Sikorsky design was selected in late 2013 and a $1.2 billion development contract that funds four pre-production examples and six aircrew and maintenance trainers was awarded in July 2014.

A total of nine aircraft, including five "system demonstration test articles" to support operational testing, will be produced during the 75-month engineering and manufacturing development phase, and Sikorsky aims to shave six months off that schedule to capture payment incentives built into the contract for speedy delivery.

Statements by Lockheed Martin-owned Sikorsky and the US Air Force programme office at Wright-Patterson AFB in Ohio suggest that the contractor is tracking about three months ahead of schedule and the current level of design detail is closer to a critical design review level.

Having met its target date for completing the preliminary design of the air vehicle, Sikorsky now hopes to bring forward the government PDR of the training system by three months.

“I am very proud of our team,” says Sikorsky HH-60W programme director Tim Healy. “They are not only operating to an accelerated schedule, but the preliminary design that we have achieved here has prepared us well for detailed aircraft design and subsequent production.”

The review involved approximately 200 people from the various air force and Sikorsky programme offices, plus representatives from the Pentagon’s acquisition office and members of the Pave Hawk combat rescue community.

“This design review was basically a non-event for the programme office, especially my engineering team,” says the air force’s CRH chief engineer Duane Sevey, who notes that the team had been identifying and resolving issues prior to PDR and even performed a mock review.

Having completed the main programmatic step of 2016, the HH-60W team is now working toward a critical design review originally scheduled for mid-fiscal year 2017.

The HH-60W is different enough from the US Army UH-60M that it is derived from and the up-gunned Special Forces multi-mission variant to warrant its own development phase and even a separate assembly line. It contains air force and mission-specific avionics, equipment and defensive countermeasures, plus a larger internal fuel capability and cabin area.

First flight is planned for 2019, but that event could be brought forward if Sikorsky keeps up this momentum. Two low-rate production lots totalling 18 aircraft will be awarded in 2019 and 2020, with the remaining 85 aircraft being procured at full-rate between 2021 and 2026.

Yes, they are ahead of schedule.

UK MoD funds further development of Spear 3 missile

MBDA has been awarded a contract by the UK Ministry of Defence for further development of its Spear 3 missile for use on the Lockheed Martin F-35B.

Worth some £411 million ($282 million), the four-year contract covers critical design and development work to integrate the missile into the internal weapons bay of the Joint Strike Fighter.

Spear 3 is derived from the company’s Brimstone precision-guided air-to-surface munition, currently used by the Royal Air Force on the Panavia Tornado GR4 operating over Syria and Iraq, and on the Eurofighter Typhoon from 2018. Spear 3 was successfully test fired from a Typhoon in March at a range in west Wales, the Mo D says.

The new derivative benefits from replacing the missile's rocket motor with a turbojet engine, ensuring a range of some 60 miles, MBDA says; it is expected to enter service in the mid-2020s.

“This contract will give UK pilots a state-of-the-art British-designed weapon to be used on board our next-generation F-35B jets, with the precision and punch that we need to give decisive operational advantage over our adversaries and keep Britain safe,” says defence procurement minister Philip Dunne.

In March, company executives told media that the next development phase for Spear 3 could include a demonstration effort, but details of this have not yet been revealed.

18 MAY, 2016 BY: BETH STEVENSON LONDON MBDA has been awarded a contract by the UK Ministry of Defence for further development of its Spear 3 missile for use on the Lockheed Martin F-35B.

Worth some £411 million ($282 million), the four-year contract covers critical design and development work to integrate the missile into the internal weapons bay of the Joint Strike Fighter.

Spear 3 is derived from the company’s Brimstone precision-guided air-to-surface munition, currently used by the Royal Air Force on the Panavia Tornado GR 4 operating over Syria and Iraq, and on the Eurofighter Typhoon from 2018. Spear 3 was successfully test fired from a Typhoon in March at a range in west Wales, the Mo D says.

The new derivative benefits from replacing the missile's rocket motor with a turbojet engine, ensuring a range of some 60 miles, MBDA says; it is expected to enter service in the mid-2020s.

“This contract will give UK pilots a state-of-the-art British-designed weapon to be used on board our next-generation F-35B jets, with the precision and punch that we need to give decisive operational advantage over our adversaries and keep Britain safe,” says defence procurement minister Philip Dunne.

In March, company executives told media that the next development phase for Spear 3 could include a demonstration effort, but details of this have not yet been revealed.

Asset Image MBDA The contract follows an announcement earlier this month from MBDA that the next generation of Brimstone – benefiting from an improved seeker and increased stand-off range – had been tested aboard a Tornado during an operational assessment at China Lake in California.

Eleven flights were carried out, which marked a “major step” towards the weapon being granted its release to service with the RAF. It will initially be fielded on the Tornado, followed by the Typhoon.

And on the subject of the F-35B, UK Tanker Certification is to begin.

edited 21st May '16 1:36:10 PM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
MajorTom Eye'm the cutest! Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Eye'm the cutest!
#14569: May 26th 2016 at 7:08:53 PM

Ugh jet rammers...watch where you're going you fucktards! [lol]

"Allah may guide their bullets, but Jesus helps those who aim down the sights."
AFP Since: Mar, 2010
#14570: May 26th 2016 at 9:17:07 PM

To be fair, if they knew how to fly, they'd be in the Air Force. [lol]

Imca (Veteran)
#14571: May 26th 2016 at 10:00:24 PM

Please, the Airforce can only land if the runway is 6000 feet long and stationary. tongue

MajorTom Eye'm the cutest! Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Eye'm the cutest!
#14572: May 27th 2016 at 4:33:31 AM

^ And baby-walked in by the guy in the tower. [lol]

"Allah may guide their bullets, but Jesus helps those who aim down the sights."
AFP Since: Mar, 2010
#14573: May 27th 2016 at 11:57:28 AM

Navy pilots also need a hand holding them on the way down, plus someone to catch them which the Air Force guys usually only need if the plane is on fire. [lol]

TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apacalypse. from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apacalypse.
#14574: May 27th 2016 at 12:06:00 PM

Immy: For the Navy your confusing a real landing with a controlled crash.tongue

Who watches the watchmen?
MajorTom Eye'm the cutest! Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Eye'm the cutest!
#14575: May 27th 2016 at 4:53:58 PM

Real landing, controlled crash, they're kinda the same thing. Only on land it's a bit more forgiving.

"Allah may guide their bullets, but Jesus helps those who aim down the sights."

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