Pokémon anime

"I don't care what happens to these people" or something like that.

edited 13th Aug '15 11:14:43 PM by LinkToTheFuture

Oh god we still have people thinking Ash, fucking XY Ash, as a terrible battler?

Why are people still determined to take potshots at fucking XY of all things? Shit like

For fuck's sake. It's like someone who doesn't watch the recent anime assume things but when confronted he can't even cite shit.

Or maybe it's the recurring troll of this thread because I don't remember people referring to the guy, so if that's the case then my bad.

edited 14th Aug '15 2:59:24 AM by Ookamikun

Yeah, this is pointlessly childish. Ash is an amazing battler and was amazing enough to be recognized by multiple Legendaries(and not just in the movies either, which says a lot). He also took down more than one, notably(he took down two in a row, through a very difficult battle, in the Sinnoh League). Red didn't even take down more than Mewtwo in Origins. The Manga might've made Red a bit more badass, but Ash has fought in every league so far, his own filler season league, defeated the Battle Frontier(and simply chose to not be a Frontier Brain, but can do so at any time), and beaten 8 Gym Leaders per region(and we know it'll continue through Kalos as well. He'll win them all, and probably lose at the league as normal, hopefully with a fair loss).

So far, most of his league losses were due to bullshit that should not have happened. His Hoenn and Johto losses were at least perfectly fair. He was outplayed overall, but fought to the brink. Dumb rules made him lose in the Kanto league. Sinnoh had him face two Legendaries, in which case, he might've had to face even more. Unova had Cameron who should not have won. Lucario evolved and suddenly curbstomped the rest of Ash's team. Albeit, Pikachu later defeated a Mega Lucario in X/Y, a Gym Leader's no less. It was basically just an excuse to knock him out of the tourney, not a halfway decent win.

Mirror World!Ash definitely was not a good battler. That was established. His "allies" besides Team Rocket were jerks too. Not severe ones, but still bad friends.

I don't mind that Ash loses leagues when it's due to fair play. But poor rulings and random bullshit is another problem.

edited 14th Aug '15 3:32:29 AM by Irene

Alright. I'll admit... maybe I'm not giving Ash the credit he deserves. Maybe I'm taking the few losses he actually has on his record sheet, some not even of his fault, and magnifying them by eleven. Maybe I'm jaded from all the moments where they went nowhere with stuff.

I apologize for that.

If all the doomsday predictions about the ratings prove to be true, then I can see the writers pullin a Maybe Ever After.

Back when DP was airing there were a lot of hints Ash was going to really win the league. The entire Elite 4 and Cynthia debuted in DP, and that was the first time we saw all the Elite 4 in a single region. Cynthia continually reminded Ash that he could challenge her at the Champion league.

Before the league, many of us assumed Ash Vs. Paul was going to be the finals and Ash would win. It seemed like Tobias character was created at the last minute to give someone Ash to lose to, because all the previous league rivals (Richie, Harrisson, Tyson, etc) all got proper introduction episodes where they got backstories and for Ash to meet them. Tobias never talked or got an intro ep until the battle.

My guess is the show writers originally intended Ash to win the Sinnoh league and challenge the Elite 4, but then the higher-ups or execs wanted the show to remain status quo, so they told Tomioka and the other writers Ash couldn't win so they tossed their ideas. The BW revamp making Ash into a rookie again didn't help matters either.

Sometimes you can tell the writers really do want to take the show in exciting directions, but they're constantly competing with the marketing execs and the higher-ups who want the show to continually run forever, so they can't do that.

If you skip a lot of the bland filler and just focus on the bigger moments, the Pokemon anime really does have some great character development or moments for a lot of the characters and rivals. Its just people forget about it because sagas are stretched over 3-4 years.

The only time they went nowhere was GS Ball. That was the only "plot gets dropped" thing in the anime.

At this point I consider XY Ash a creature of its own separate from the older Ashes. He's the type who would steamroll OS saga, make Sabrina wet, and turn Richie into a worthy rival.

edited 14th Aug '15 11:17:29 AM by Ookamikun

It might also be because Ash doesn't have an arrogant rival this time making him look like a fool. Even in DP, where Ash was at his most competent besides XY, still had Paul constantly calling him pathetic and Ash lost every battle he had with Paul till the league. Since XY doesn't really have any arrogant rival making fun of Ash, it just makes him look better.

This is also the first saga where Ash has an entire group that's younger than him and looks up to him. Serena/Clemont/Bonnie all idolize Ash and think he's amazing, whereas previous Brock was always there as the older character, or there was always one character on the group who was snarky with Ash like Misty, Max or Iris.

XY really is the first saga where there isn't any character making fun of Ash or thinking he's an idiot.

And lets be honest, he needed that.

I mean, Ash isn't perfect, but he hasn't let his ego go to his head in a long time, so there really shouldn't be a need for a snarked to constantly take him down a few pegs, because there are no pegs to take down.

That's probably another reason why Iris isn't so popular.

The current party is IMO the best group combination they've had in the series. Though if I were to rank the travelling parties, I'd go XY > DP > RS > OS > BW. Admittedly some OS is because original series bias and fact that my hatred of Iris really brings things down. She is the only traveling companion I've ever hated.

I dunno, I can't rank the DP trio high as a group because Brock was a completely dead character in DP and had no reason to be there. Dawn and Brock had no chemistry AT ALL, and Brock felt left out as a useless third wheel because Ash and Dawn did everything together in DP while Brock did nothing. Even if the Ash/Dawn interactions were good, Brock being there dragged the entire group down. I seriously cannot think of any moment the DP trio shared as a collective trio.

Brock really should have left when AG ended and been replaced by a new male sidekick for DP. Even Barry on the group would have worked. I still have no idea why the writers brought Brock back again for DP when he had already run his course by the end of the AG series.

edited 16th Aug '15 10:34:57 AM by precita

Wasn't Brock picked by Uxie or something like that?

Yes. The Lake Trio picked one of each of the main heroes. Ash, Dawn, and Brock.

I often wonder if Brock's Japanese VA had a contract to be in the anime forever similar to Team Rocket and that's why he lasted so long. For those who don't know Brock's Japanese VA voices Wobbufett who is still in the anime to this day, so even though Brock has been gone since 2010 his VA is still voicing Wobbufett whenever it appears.

Brock was in the anime for 13 years (sans Orange Islands) and lasted a whopping 4 generations. Its completely odd to see that he lasted so much longer in the anime than every single other companion and made it through the first four gens of the series.

The writers easily axe everyone else after just one generation now, so much like Team Rocket's permanent stay in the anime I wonder if Brock was a major change of mind come mid/late DP.

Talonflame next week, needless to say I am hyped.

I like how Talonflame acts as both Ash's typical bird pokemon for a region AND his main fire pokemon for a region. All of Ash's other birds are normal types, but this is the first time his bird acts as a second type, which is why Ash didn't get any basic fire pokemon in Kalos.

You can tell in some sagas the writers struggled to keep up the grass/fire/water/flying combo, like how Torkoal was basically irrelevant for most of Hoenn and only given to Ash to fill out the fire pokemon quota that saga. I also prefer it when Ash doesn't get all the starters for this reason, it was fine in Kanto because it was the first series, but in Johto and Unova he really didn't need all the starters

Did Torkoal do anything important or noteworthy? I honestly can't remember.

It was used in Norman's Gym battle but that was the only Gym it was in. It was used in many Hoenn league matches where it tied with a Tropius, and it beat Tyson's Shiftry. It also came back to nearly beat Brandon's Registeel in Battle Frontier.

Lastly it appeared in the Sinnoh league to get OHKO'd by Tobias' Darkrai. Seriously, poor Torkoal didn't even get to use one attack before Darkrai killed it.

Tobias. That pitstain will forever be a black mark on the series. I pray that next league, they don't pull that level of hamfisted crap again.

Cameron was probably worse, honestly. Tobias was cheap, but he wasn't moronic cheap.

At least with Tobias you can say, "Ash and his team are so badass that it required a team of legendaries for him to win."

Cameron's just a joke.

Even when Ash lost to Tobias he was still able to do something impressive: beat Darkrai when no when else could. Cameron had 5 Pokemon on him, blatantly ignored Elemental Rock-Paper-Scissors in the most suicidal way (going against mons with double-advantage typings), and Riolu evolving to counter-sweep felt way cheaper. At least when a Legendary kicking your ass, it's a Legendary. There's some actually dignity there and it's not the least bit insulting to his character.

edited 23rd Aug '15 2:23:33 AM by Karxrida

That's part of the reason I don't like the Lucario line. There's also the fact that whenever a Riolu or Lucario shows up, it's always a big freaking deal. Aside from Cameron's Lucario, there was the one in the one movie and a Riolu in that episode with the Pokémon Ranger. Korrina's Lucario also got an entire mini-arc. Maylene's is the only one that the show doesn't set aside as special.

Movie Foci are, by definition special. And with regards to that particular movie, it was an Early-Bird Cameo.

Several viewers were miffed about the Riolu in the Pokemon Ranger mini-series for quite the opposite reason: Namely, that even though it and Ash had a special bond, it didn't join his team.

Anyway, missed the first 5 minutes of the Mega Evolution Special due to technical difficulties, so I missed the briefing and the argument, but I got the plot important part: When we find dat giant wok, we'll find Dr. Wesandr.

edited 23rd Aug '15 7:54:06 AM by DonaldthePotholer

At least with Tobias you can say, "Ash and his team are so badass that it required a team of legendaries for him to win."

You can also say dubwise that Ash went up against one hell of a Pokemon trainer.