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BeholdTheTheremin HAT from A blank white windowless room Since: Oct, 2010
HAT
#1851: Sep 17th 2014 at 8:00:53 PM

If that's how the Joint Reasoning mechanic works, then it kind of reminds me of Sherlock's HUD vision in Sherlock.

Except with dramatic spotlights.

EDIT: TGS presentation. Extended trailer around 2:30, Joint Reasoning demonstration around 12:35.

Hey look guys, a jury! And a giant torch scale! Joint Reasoning seems to be more like Confrontation and a bit of the Mood Matrix Overload (in 3D!), though then again we see more of Sherlock's side of the mechanic than Ryuunosuke's.

edited 20th Sep '14 10:08:08 AM by BeholdTheTheremin

A pie bus falls into a multiversal convergence point. Hilarity ensues.
RhymeBeat Bird mom from Eastern Standard Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
Bird mom
#1852: Sep 22nd 2014 at 9:59:55 AM

So I need help in AAI 2. The bit of Knightley's testimony about the gun, seems like I need to make a far more complex argument than the evidence I have would allow.

The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.
optimusjamie Since: Jun, 2010
#1853: Sep 22nd 2014 at 11:50:35 AM

Alright, so I've got to the bit of DD where Klavier shows up again, and I have to ask, has anyone written lyrics for Guilty Love? I think there might have been some in AJ, but my memory's a bit fuzzy on that.

Direct all enquiries to Jamie B Good
KoujiTamino Since: Jul, 2010
#1854: Sep 22nd 2014 at 1:24:14 PM

While no lyrics existed at the time the game came out, Shu Takumi wrote lyrics for a live performance of the song at an Ace Attorney 10th Anniversary event.

TwilightFalchion Since: Oct, 2010
#1855: Sep 25th 2014 at 3:15:20 PM

I just realized something. Joint Reasoning is essentially a battle of Deductive wits between Ryuunosuke and Sherlock. Phoenix's Ancestor has to on (presumably since this is a mechanic in the game) multiple occasions Prove Sherlock Is Wrong!!!

Or at least make Sherlock refine his deductions so that they both end up at the truth.

Noaqiyeum Trans Siberian Anarchestra (it/they) from the gentle and welcoming dark (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
Trans Siberian Anarchestra (it/they)
#1856: Sep 25th 2014 at 4:45:00 PM

It sounds like you aren't proving him wrong, exactly, so much as pointing out when he's jumping to conclusions. "But couldn't the mud on his coat instead mean...?"

The Revolution Will Not Be Tropeable
TwilightFalchion Since: Oct, 2010
#1857: Sep 26th 2014 at 1:31:11 AM

A video containing ONLY the Joint Reasoning Mechanic from the page topper's video. Still only in Japanese though.

ukokira Since: May, 2012
#1858: Sep 26th 2014 at 4:55:40 AM

Ace Attorney has desensitized me to European child prodigies so Watson being a 8-year old doctor/writer doesn't bug me as much as it should.

But there's something about her voice in the trailer that makes me want to punch something.

edited 26th Sep '14 4:56:08 AM by ukokira

TwilightFalchion Since: Oct, 2010
#1859: Sep 28th 2014 at 8:35:13 PM

Someone over at CourtRecords.net has translated the Joint Reasoning segment..

12:39

Aboard the steamship "Prussia"

Special Guest Apartments, Lodge No. 2

Holmes: Actually... Just by looking, I knew he was the suspicious-looking Russian man pictured. ...Mr. Naruhodou, I've been thinking about this from time to time. Is it because he is Russian that he is suspicious... or because he is suspicious that he is Russian?

Naruhodo: ...I don't think it's either.

Holmes: Just now, I've come upon the "conclusion"... There are no other possibilities. Well, Mr. Suspicious Russian, sir. My "conclusion"... is but one at the moment.

Loylot: W... what!?

Holmes: Your "true identity"... is an extremely dangerous "revolutionary"! ...Furthermore. With those scissors... you had just snipped off the "life" of something rather precious... Am I wrong?

Loylot: Ah...!

Holmes: ...Very well. Shall we discuss the reasoning behind this in detail? Of Sherlock Holmes' "famous deductions"...!

Reasoning Start: The game is afoot!

Topic 1: The elderly man's true identity

Holmes: Now then, I will begin my brilliant deductions. Regarding this clearly suspicious Russian man's identity...

First, what's important to note is, of course... the large scissors that would catch anyone's line of sight. [!] Just what was he intending to do with them?

The answer is... something that would be made clear upon "observing" you. You used those scissors to snip off that impressive beard! [?]

Now, let us move to the next point. About that well groomed beard... why would you suddenly decide to cut it...?

Here, I have the morning's "paper" with a noteworthy article written. ...It appears you have also read the same "news".

Do you see now?

It is the "evidence" that points out your true identity... the article on the revolutionary! [?]

"The famous revolutionary from Russia, Demetri Demiglace, has fled in exile"... And pictured in the photo... is that often conspicuous beard.

Having read the article, you cut your beard to avoid being noticed by others aboard the ship. ...Therefore, your "true identity" has been made clear.

You, my bearded acquaintance*, are none other than the dreadful revolutionary... Demetri Demiglace! ...Well, I haven't heard very much, so I'm not completely sure.

Conclusion: Russian revolutionary

Naruhodo: ...Uh, Susato? Was that one of the rumored "famous deductions" of his?

Susato: Um, yes... I have read about them in his stories... But the "famous deduction" just now... it seems to have the wrong air about it.

Naruhodo: Hey, Mr. Holmes, could you come over here? Holmes: Ah, Mr. Naruhodou, what seems to be the matter?

Naruhodo: That reasoning just now... seems a little odd. Holmes: Mm... what of it?

Naruhodo: Um, about this Russian man... He looks nothing like that dreadful revolutionary!

Holmes: Well... in any case, he's somehow related to that dreadful revolutionary. Perhaps, he was able to "revolutionize" his face.

Susato: Hmm... that certainly is dreadful...

Naruhodo: (Ugh... you got to be kidding me.)

Susato: Anyway, Sir Naruhodou, about Sir Holmes' "theory"... There may be merely minor errors in certain "viewpoints". The key to Sir Holmes' "theory" lies in some important "comments". May we secretly exchange them with others?

Naruhodo: (...Geez, what a troublesome "Great Detective"...)

Holmes: Ah, I seem to have laid trouble on you, my friend! Ahahahaha!

Naruhodo: (...What's with the haughty laughter?)

Holmes: Then, let us begin. This time, following the genuine path to the truth. Of Sherlock Holmes' "famous deductions"...!

Analysis Start: Hold it, Mr. Holmes!

Topic 1: The elderly man's true identity

...

Holmes: You used those scissors to snip off that impressive beard! [?]

[lower screen]

Susato: Hmm... so did he use those scissors to cut that beard?

Naruhodo: It looks like the Russian man didn't get quite the same idea.

Susato: Then... let us exchange this comment at once! What sort of thing did the man actually cut off...?

Naruhodo: Anyhow, though it may be rude, let's "analyze" it!

[examine "impressive beard"]

Naruhodo: That sure is an impressive beard.

Susato: To us, one's hair does have a certain "life" to it. But to the elderly Russian sir, does he treat it as his "life"?

Naruhodo: Uh, not that I'd know. I'm no Russian or elder.

[examine "thick coat"]

Susato: It appears to be a very warm outer garment.

Naruhodo: No matter how you put it, Russia is a very cold country, after all.

Susato: ...Yet, it's rather warm inside this ship.

Naruhodo: That means! Since he was too warm, he cut off some parts of his coat!

Susato: If it was me, I would simply unbutton the coat.

Naruhodo: Well, you have a point.

[examine "beautiful golden hair"]

Susato: My... what pretty "hair" he has!

Naruhodo: That is, "hair" atop his head.** It sure does have a nice golden shine. But why does he have golden hair at the back here?

Susato: Pretty golden hair peeking out from that stocky black hair...

Naruhodo: (This is definitely suspicious...!)

Take that! [beautiful golden hair]

Naruhodo: You used those scissors to snip off that beautiful golden hair!

Holmes: That's right... that is exactly what I was saying! That slender hair... unfortunately, I doubt that would belong to an elderly man. ...

21:58

Take that!

[Dancing Girl Article]

Naruhodo: It is the "evidence" that points out your true identity... and that is...

Holmes: It seems I finally am able to announce your real name.

Naruhodo: And that is...

Holmes: *bleep* , isn't that right?

Conclusion: Russian revolutionary

  • bleep*

[SOLVED]

  • Using 'koso' after a subject puts emphasis on the subject. I might as well add a little decoration.

    • Susato uses 'ogushi', the honorific form of 'kami' ("hair"), written in kana. It's rarely heard this these days, so Naruhodo makes a note of it for the audience. Nonetheless, veterans of traditional-style Japanese movies will occasionally hear of its usage.

Looks like it's going to go the route of the Great detective...either ain't as great as he thinks he is, or he is that good but looks in all the wrong places.

edited 28th Sep '14 8:50:21 PM by TwilightFalchion

RhymeBeat Bird mom from Eastern Standard Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
Bird mom
#1860: Sep 29th 2014 at 10:19:51 AM

So I just finished Prosecutor's Path. I quite enjoyed the game, the interconnectedness of absolutely everything felt like an interesting change of pace and was pulled off very well. The fan translation was up to par with the original translation, especially brilliant was Simon Keyes names. It sounds like just your standard "generic witness/defendant Punny Name making his true importance a genuine shock. It also creates an ironic parralel with the next Simon Edgeworth meets whose story is almost the exact opposite, down to how players will react to his character design. The animations for Simon are really clever too. He'll at points cover his eyes, ears, and mouth. See no Evil, Hear no Evil, Speak no Evil, from a Big Bad who never directly killed anyone until the last case. I also really enjoyed how sympathetic Simon ends up. His entire life everyone he's ever trusted, save the hired assassin, has betrayed him. He can see only the darkness in people and devoted himself to getting back at them, in a way where he doesn't have to rely on the (apparently corrupt) courts.

edited 29th Sep '14 10:20:07 AM by RhymeBeat

The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.
Tarsen Since: Dec, 2009
#1861: Sep 29th 2014 at 10:35:31 AM

i agree with all of that. i also really enjoyed blaise as a villain. i was a bit...conflicted about courtney and i really did not like amnesiac kay.

RhymeBeat Bird mom from Eastern Standard Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
Bird mom
#1862: Sep 29th 2014 at 10:40:34 AM

Agreed. Blaise was a great villian, and amnesiac Kay was so much of a Purity Sue it was sickening. I mean Junie Wood had a self-aware edge and it turns out was willing to break to rules for the sake of her friends. Kay without her memories basically becomes everything Junie was parodying. Courtney for the first three cases was the most grating rival in the series, but my god was her swinging the gavel down on Blaise awesome. From that point on I liked her a lot more, especially because they weren't afraid to humanize her.

The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.
Tarsen Since: Dec, 2009
#1863: Sep 29th 2014 at 11:10:38 AM

i suppose the bit that truly bothers me about amnesiac kay is that she tries to martyr herself, which as usual, strays straight into Stop Helping Me territory. i have no idea what leads her to think that proving edgeworth wrong would somehow help him when his entire career hinges on him being right.

as for courtney, i was pretty much conflicted all the way through out; i knew she was going to turn out to be sympathetic because...well, tradition i guess. and then you start seeing blatant hypocrisy and threats from her and it just becomes hard to actually tolerate her...and then she occasionally sticks up for sebastion which gives her a humanising trait...only to then sometimes suggest she was using him (which turned out to be true) and bleh. and then she forces the warden to cooperate in order to allow the case to turn out in your favor, which improved and confused my opinion a bit more. i was always fascinated about where her character was going but it took a while to actually like her because she ping-ponged between being somewhat likable to being incredibly hard to tolerate.

on another note, courtney's breakdown sprites upset me. they seem eerily alike someone having a panic attack, and not in the fun, overblown villainous breakdown way.

RhymeBeat Bird mom from Eastern Standard Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
Bird mom
#1864: Sep 29th 2014 at 11:48:00 AM

I was able to stomach her treatment of Sebastian well enough, because she actually treated him with kindness most of the time, enough that I believed she still liked the kid more than his father did at least appreciating the effore he put into things. As for Kay her logic was "if he hadn't been defending me he wouldn't have lost his badge, so if he gives up he can get his badge back". Not really solid logic, mind you but this was coming from a girl who'd lost a good chunk of her memory.

As I side note I love the incapable inculpable mix up, because inculpable essentially means NOT GUILTY so it's an amusingly ironic mix up for a prosecutor.

The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#1865: Sep 29th 2014 at 4:13:41 PM

"Demetri Demiglace"?!

I have a message from another time...
TwilightFalchion Since: Oct, 2010
#1866: Sep 29th 2014 at 9:57:59 PM

Didn't say the translation is accurate....or good. Was the only one i could find.

EeveeMistress Queen of Stars from Canada Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
Queen of Stars
#1867: Sep 30th 2014 at 12:58:34 PM

HOLD IT! I have come to join this discussion~ I was introduced to the series with Layton vs. Wright(the only Ace Attorney series game I could find, I looked for months), and it's not only fun but ridiculously challenging. I have completely fallen in love with this series~ It's the first thing I've played in a long time that actually makes me want to shout alongside the characters. OBJECTION! HOLD IT! TAKE THAT!

~Life is lonely but unlikely, too~
RhymeBeat Bird mom from Eastern Standard Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
Bird mom
#1868: Sep 30th 2014 at 1:26:25 PM

I was the opposite. I got into Layton once I heard about the crossover.

The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.
Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#1869: Sep 30th 2014 at 4:49:37 PM

This is the video that got me into Phoenix Wright.

As for Prof. Layton, seeing the Japanese trailer for this game in 2012 made me start that series.

Never thought I'd get to play this game, though~

Noaqiyeum Trans Siberian Anarchestra (it/they) from the gentle and welcoming dark (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
Trans Siberian Anarchestra (it/they)
#1870: Oct 3rd 2014 at 11:25:37 AM

Some of my submissions to Ask Ace Attorney were finally published! Allowing me to be unnecessarily mean to some of my favourite witnesses and villains. :D

The defence would like to add to the court record the irrefutable testimony that Myriam's happy shimmy is utterly adorable

The Revolution Will Not Be Tropeable
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#1871: Oct 3rd 2014 at 11:30:55 AM

One of mine was answered recently as well.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#1872: Oct 11th 2014 at 12:49:05 AM

The final boss of Investigations 3.

Wendy Old-Elevator-Quake.

edited 11th Oct '14 12:49:36 AM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
GavsEvans123 HAAAA! from the Amazon with my mom where she was researching (Plucky Ensign) Relationship Status: Snooping as usual
HAAAA!
#1874: Nov 3rd 2014 at 4:31:13 AM

Ask Ace Attorney Mod ships ApolloXAthena?

Hint: Look at Widget in the second picture.

Cortex should take a 12-step plan off a 10-step pier
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#1875: Nov 3rd 2014 at 11:46:12 AM

That was an accident on the moderator's part, he meant to use the regular grinning gif.

But he's leaving it as is, so now we all have to wonder just what it is that's upsetting her. tongue

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!

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