Sexism In Anime

Hmm. So, for instance, if a work had minimal female characters and they were all Flat Characters who don't get much screentime or plot action, that'd be pretty sexist, would it?

edited 26th Apr '16 7:13:38 PM by IchigoPockyChama

Not necessarily. It depends on the setting, and who the story focuses on, and other details.

Ah, I see.

It wouldn't necessarily be sexist by default or in a vacuum but in aggregate across a wide body of works it would probably be kind of problematic yes, but in individual stories it would still depend on a lot of things like Duck said.

Like I said not long ago, the most popular demographic of manga is shounen, and most shounen stories tend to be power fantasies for teenage boys, women being super cool and prominent isn't necessarily at odds with that but isn't necessarily helpful towards selling that fantasy either. That's why they often have women in mostly supporting positions and in battle shounen they aren't the main and super powerful combatants that often. I think Jojo part 6 (stone ocean) and Claymore are the two big exceptions to that, and stone ocean is one of the least popular parts in Japan exactly because of that, it has an "intimidating" and "masculine" female main character and is set in an american prison. It's a manga that was begging to be in a seinen magazine where it might have a chance to reach an audience that would be capable of appreciating it and which wouldn't put limits and expectations on what it could or couldn't be.

edited 26th Apr '16 7:33:13 PM by wehrmacht

This thread getting revived caused me to look up any Japanese fan opinions on harem shows. I found threads with people not liking them, and found that there's this comic◊ and the wall of text from it that gets copy and pasted in many threads about harems. I got curious what people here would think of its conclusion.

Generally, I would say that fantasy worlds and open societies have the least excuse for limiting genders, while settings in single-gender schools, sports, and to some degree works that aim for some kind of historical accuracy are more naturally shifted towards one gender.

You can still make a case for why they'd have those settings in the first place, but sometimes, as wehrmacht hinted at, what sells and creators can actually manage to get published count as well. Meaning, if you want to look for a source for why something appears to be sexist, just looking at the creator and the work itself doesn't always provide a proper answer.

There's Fairy Tail, which has a ton of powerful female characters who get plenty of focus.

It's an interesting line of thought. Thanks for posting that, getting japanese perspectives on this tends to be kind of rare so I appreciate you going out of your way to look for it.

I think the comic makes some pretty valid observations about harems and how they tend to present a "safe" fantasy for male readers.

Ya know an ensemble thing would work pretty well.

Also heh the funny thing bout Fairy Tail is that yes it has competent women but its goes a little to far in the other direction. I mean Erza has become a God-Mode Sue at this point & is about as interesting a harem protagonist. Okay that comparisons a bit to far I admit but it still kinda works. That & and all the fanservice that is blatant as fuck & hits you like a Goddamn truck nearly every chapter.

How much of a God-Mode Sue is she compared to the average shonen protagonist? At the end of it, they tend to be relatively unbeatable. Well, quite often after being beaten and not giving up a thousand times, so I suppose that's not as Sueish.

Main reason I've not read or watched Fairy Tail is that I really don't like the art style. It's not as hideous as One Piece, but still.

Erza was pretty OP from the get-go compared to, say, Natsu and Gray, and I honestly can't remember any fights she outright lost.

And yeah, I really don't like standard harem stories because inevitably one or two of the females in the harem will get some development as characters while the rest will be flat archetypes moving down a checklist. The tsundere? Check. The mature, motherly one? Check. And so on.

One problem that is prevalent in nearly all anime and manga, and if bad enough makes it almost a deal-breaker for me, is the Double Standard. Zero No Tsukaima and Beat Angel Dokuro are prime examples of this. A woman inflicting horrific injuries/death upon a man for the slightest of offenses, or no offense at all? Comedy! A man doing the same to a woman? Horrific, depraved degeneracy! I know that this is more of a universal problem, but it is especially bad in anime. It's why I can't stand so-called "tsundere" characters, which these days seems to mean a bipolar violent psychopath.

edited 26th Apr '16 10:40:15 PM by danime91

Does anyone know any series where a couple is mutually violent?

Nope. Can't think of a single one off the top of my head. There are a few where the tables are turned and the female is as much or more the target of comedic violence than the male, but that's usually where the male is playing the straight man, so he's not on the receiving end as much. Don't think there's any where the pain is dished out equally.

All this talk about tsundere is probably why I like Kyou No Yuiko San so much, which is one where the tsundere is done right.

Thain heroine is a tsundere, but she knows it and constantly tried to better herself. There are even some instances where her antics went too far and her boyfriend called her out on it. She's also the non-violent variant.

The problem with modern tsundere is just they're mostly archetype without much thought put into it.

The only example I can think of where both of them are violent is one that only exists in my head, and it's still only one version of them. Both of them like to fight, and one of them is a bit of a masochist and deliberately provokes attacks, so it's not exactly standard anyway. It's also a deliberately dysfunctional couple. Neither's a tsundere, though.

But usually if both of them suffer from anything, the guy's getting punished, and the girl's getting groped, or something along those lines.

There's a yuri series called Love Desu where the couples are like always beating each other up/shooting at each other.

edited 27th Apr '16 5:32:38 AM by majoraoftime

@dRoy, It's been a long while since I read it but isn't that sort of the basis of Ranma One Half?

edited 27th Apr '16 5:56:25 AM by MousaThe14

Isn't the most common translation Love Death? Makes more sense than Love Desu, at last.

Also, since it's a yuri series wouldn't it technically be exempt from Double Standard since both parties are female?

And in Ranma, while Ranma will tease and poke at Akane, he still gets beat up way more often, sometimes for things he didn't even do, and Akane is never shown in the wrong for it.

edited 27th Apr '16 8:14:59 AM by danime91

One difference with Ranma (and Saito) compared to a lot of harem MCs is that they actually antagonise their girlfriends on occasion. Not as much as they get punished for, but they're not innocent all the time like many others are while still getting wrecked for it.

Saito wa saite da!

Weren't Hinata and Yui kind of in this dynamic? I can't remember very well...

Mutually violent couples? Haiyore Nyarko San, in a way.

What makes a show sexist? At bottom, I define it as treating men and women as categories rather than traits. (For the writer, not in-universe.)

The biggest thing I find sexist? The idea that a guy will be willing to put up with any kind of behavior from a girl as long as she's pretty and shows some skin. Haru to Natsu is a good example. Natsumi is a complete bitch compared to Haru, so it shouldn't even be a contest as to who would be preferable as a girlfriend. All these guys who will do favors for a pretty girl, or totally overlook her horrible character traits and forgive her for anything just because she's hot. Of course, this extends to the readers as well, which I guess makes this a case of Truth in Television, but it's still quite sexist.

We do have Bastard Boyfriend, so the idea of someone being a complete arse while getting away with it due to looks isn't gender specific. Certain parts of how it plays out may be, though.