Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

I'll wait for a few hours before having Jarmin, N Ma, and Cyclops cut in case anyone has objections. Also, can anyone respond to my question on how to handle Power Rangers due to it having (mostly) one continuity with very few nods to the other seasons (save for Dino Thunder and Megaforce) after a certain point? Should we find the most heinous villain and measure by their standards or just treat most seasons on their own?

EDIT: Also...looking at the Sentai entries, we may need to rewrite some of the entries. Some have grammar issues, some have italics, and Enter's in particular was written after about ten episodes and states that he became one in episode 10. Now, he is a CM, but that's a notable problem. In addition, Radiguet and Long's entries talk about how they and Basco are the most evil Sentai monsters. While the three are definitely Complete Monsters, it's basically saying that those three are more 100% evil than all the others.

edited 23rd Feb '14 11:11:52 AM by finalsurvivor1

I think mostly treat the seasons as their own, but it shouldn't look weird to have them all mentioned on the same page

22257 I was wondering why they weren't on the list as well. I'm concentrating my efforts on the Heisei entries we do have first. After that, I'll see what I can do about Doctor Shinigami and the Great Leader (should be easy keeps but an effort post or two might come in handy).

edited 23rd Feb '14 11:05:54 AM by sanfranman91

Thanks. I'll start looking over Power Rangers now.

How IS White House Down anyway? IMO, Channing Tatum's NOT an action guy.

Pretty fun, honestly. A real throwback to 90s action films

Lighty, please add both Scar entries to The Lion King.

OK, since there have been no objections, I'll go ahead and request the three Sentai examples I've discussed be cut. Should the page be despoiled, too?

Definitely despoil them. That just leaves Power Rangers. Now, lesse...

We voted to keep Darkonda, but he needs a rewrite.

Not sure on Deviot.

Bansheera was an easy, easy yea for us.

Not sure on Master Org...Mesogog ditto.

Flurious seems a maybe. Venjix was a yea.

Serrator is the American version of Akumaro from Shinkenger...he seems a keep. I think we said yea for Xandred, too.

I thought it was Deviot keep, Darkonda cut? IIRC we decided that they basically have the same role, being the third-party villain who betrays every faction at some point or other, and of the two we decided Deviot was worse.

Mesogog I remember was a cut, due to being the Hyde in a Jekyll & Hyde situation and not measuring up to Bansheera, whom he was judged to have similar resources to.

edited 23rd Feb '14 7:46:42 PM by HamburgerTime

Really? Could've sworn he opted to solidly keep Darkonda. He sounds the clear worse of the two

IIRC the deciding point was Deviot overriding the mind of an honorable villain, Trakeena, with his own, turning her into a genocidal maniac.

I know nothing about Power Rangers, so I really can't comment on the series or Sentai Knights, or whatever.

I just recall Darkonda had committed a lot of crimes, and had really done the same thing twice over there (forcibly brainwashing a noble Anti-Villain)

For the NA list, I'd also contest this part:

You'd better have a really good reason for bringing up any Disney villain, period. Kids' shows have a very difficult time meeting the standard of heinousness required for this trope.

Disney does not necessarily = Kids' show. They're family entertainment movies, and that there are Disney villains who have qualified at all shows that it's not a totally out there idea that a Disney villain brought up just might qualify.

True. And Walt Disney himself said "I do not make films primarily for children. I make them for the child in all of us, whether we be six or sixty."

So, we find people listed under the Complete Monster tag in YMMV but they're not in the main article, what do we do? Do we chop them off and leave a note saying take it the cleanup page or whatnot? Because I was looking at the Street II V page and found this:

Complete Monster: Aside of Bison and likely Vega, we have Nucchi the prison ward.

Also, this was listed under the the game series YMMV page:

Complete Monster: Once you get past the Dark and Troubled Past (specifically, Bison-induced Parental Abandonment) and Evil Is Sexy, Juri Han could be considered one. Considering her winquotes imply she wants to rape and murder her opponents and her general Ax-Crazy behaviour...

Actually, while Juri comes very damn close, according to her OVA there is ONE single standard that she has. She will not harm young children... precisely due to her Bison-induced Parental Abandonment. Anyone else is fair game, though. Despite not much being known about him (due to the characters in the SFIII series not having concretely-outlined back-stories, Urien is implied to be one as well. In Third Strike, he kidnapped one of Chun-Li's adopted kids for use in experiments (presumably the same kind that created Necro and Twelve, or something similar), which was only prevented because Chun-Li went Mama Bear on him. And while his brother Gill is touted as a Well-Intentioned Extremist despite being the Big Bad, Urien's personality is hinted to be considerably worse. Bison. He's ripped out the good from his own soul, for starters. In several win quotes and UDON comics, he's expressed Dystopia Justifies the Means views, brainwashed women into serving as assassins and who knows what else, constantly taunts people about loved ones he's killed and seems to have few, if any standards.

Note: Haven't played the games, so I can't say anything there. As for the anime, been a long time since I watched it...

Generally, bring them up here for discussion if that happens. If it's a Zero Context Example, it' usually best to bring it here just in case, but we like to cut those and PM, etc

If we go by the rules, any example that's less than three or four years old can get insta-cut, since that was the point where mod-decree was that all new examples come through this thread. Anything older than that point gets debated here and then either cut or added to the main page.

In practice, it depends on the age of the entry. If it's a fresh entry (especially for new works) cut instantly and direct the original troper here so they can do things the right way. If it's been on the page for awhile and it becomes a chore to track down the original troper or it's been rewritten several times then that's a bit less practical. In those circumstances if the example looks well-written and puts forward an argument as to why the character counts bring it up here and we'll discuss it.

In all situations any zero-context examples (that includes X Just X type ones and examples that just say how horrible a character is without elaborating) are instant-cut no questions asks.

In other news, I'm currently going through the original Doctor Who stuff with my family (up to season 5) and playing Danganronpa so I will let you know if any Complete Monsters show up in the former and give my thoughts on the one in the latter.

edited 24th Feb '14 10:11:48 PM by Shaoken

When we say 'original,' we mean Christopher Eccleston or William Hartnell original? If the latter, we'll see you in a few years. But joking aside, have fun. We put up some good keepers from the show. Some would have counted as well if not for pure Offscreen Villainy issues.

Let us know if the VN example of Junko clears as well.

edited 23rd Feb '14 10:20:18 PM by Lightysnake

The Hartnell days, but so far we've made good progress since we only started a day or two before New Years and we're already up to season 5 in two months (granted the first six seasons was where the bulk of the missing episodes were and there's no complete story left of season 4 so...).

I have noticed that Iris Sepperin, from RosenkreuzStilette, has not been discussed. She has an entry both in the CM page and the game's YMMV section, both of which have remained untouched since the start of this effort. For the sake of officiality (And because making effort posts like these is fun!), I'm gonna expose her case.

Rosenkreuzstilette and its sequel have been out for years, but just in case, beware of spoilers.

Who is she?

Iris Sepperin/Zeppelin is one of the two daughters of Count Michael Sepperin/Zeppelin. She is a girl with magic powers, a magician, just like her other sister and the Count.

What does she do?

At first, it looks like the Count may be the Big Bad of the first game, having sent a dragon to kidnap Iris and set the organization he leads, Rosenkreuzstilette, to wage war on the world in order to create a world where people with magic powers are not discriminated, for the sake of protecting Iris. After you fight and defeat the Count, Iris shows her true colors. First off, she backstabs the Count, her own father, because he was no longer useful to her. Then she reveals to the protagonist, Spiritia, that the whole kidnapping thing was an act to make her look like a victim and place suspicion away from her, and she convinced the Count to wage war on humans for the sake of seeing the world be devastated by the war between humans and magicians. During the time Spiritia spent trying to find the Count and rescue Iris, she built a floating fortress from which to feast on the remains of the world and become someone akin to a goddess.

In the sequel, it seems at first that the Schwarzkreuz, a group of magicians who also want to wage war on humanity to make a world where magicians are not discriminated, are the main villains of the game, but... Surprise, surprise, it turns out that Iris is once again manipulating everybody like puppets. She created the homunculus Eifer Skute, one of the members of Schwarzkreuz, and used her to manipulate the leader of the organization, Pamela Arwig, into rebelling against mankind. She has built yet another floating fortress to try and devastate the world once again. She has also resurrected her father with dark arts and brainwashed him to turn him into an almost mindless Omnicidal Maniac who believes he was murdered by Spiritia. And to top it off, she kidnapped Spiritia and brainwashed her simply to make her kill the sequel's protagonist, Freudia Newahl, who is also Spiritia's best friend.

Heinousness standard

Iris is utterly and completely heinous. Her kind and innocent semblance and her kidnapping during the first game's intro sequence are nothing but a façade which hides a girl who cares nothing for how many people suffer because of her actions, and considers all of her pawns expendable. And the reason she does all this? There is a hint that she has a desire for unlimited power, but deep inside she only cares about having fun while being as despicable as possible.

Freudian Excuses? Redeeming Qualities? ANYTHING that could possibly disqualify her?

Nothing. She's an unrepentant bitch to the bitter end.

I would also like to note, the YMMV page for Rosenkreuzstilette includes a bullet point referencing a doujinshi titled Rosenkreuzstilette After Story, which paints Iris as more of a Jerkass Woobie. However, this does not count as anything but an apocryphal fan material, since it directly contradicts the events of the first game's ending and the sequel.

EDIT: Fixed a small grammatical error and reworked sections a little bit.

edited 24th Feb '14 6:42:57 AM by Sachiko

She sounds like a keeper to me.

No arguments here.

This may need expansion: Colonel Zaysen from Rambo 3 destroys Afghan villages and kills innocent people, including women and children, with mines, bio-weapons, and other evil stuff for no reason at all; even when said people did nothing at all.

edited 24th Feb '14 12:02:48 PM by ACW