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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#106601: Jan 18th 2018 at 7:04:19 PM

[up] I think that sadistic acts + the fact that he puts the souls of his victims into itself.

Is not the a developed personality, but is one.

Watch me destroying my country
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#106602: Jan 18th 2018 at 7:05:32 PM

[tdown] Goblin. Lots of things without agency go out of their masters' control.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
G-Editor Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#106604: Jan 18th 2018 at 9:00:30 PM

I'd have to give this Goblin a [tdown]

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#106605: Jan 19th 2018 at 1:38:19 AM

@ Fried Oh don't worry you're definitely not alone. Ultimate Reed was (or is, as the UU is back now) definitely one of the positive aspects of the UU.

I'm also one of the people who are inclined to not view everything as overly negative that has something to do with the Ultimate Universe.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#106606: Jan 19th 2018 at 2:20:31 AM

[tdown]Goblin

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#106607: Jan 19th 2018 at 6:30:06 AM

I don't know how you want to rewrite Quinella, but I think Gabriel we can just make it "and sending an entire army of his melee fighters on the dangerous mission-on which many die—of crossing an abyss on a rope..."

edited 19th Jan '18 7:27:46 AM by ACW

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#106608: Jan 19th 2018 at 6:43:51 AM

By the way, struck this from the YMMV page of Ultraman Ace:

  • Complete Monster: Yapool, the series' antagonist is depicted as the first antagonist of an Ultra Series that was responsible for various Choju attacks. His method of creating Choju is by combining space monsters with everyday objects, including live specimens or other life forms (be it a pet pigeon or benevolent alien). His only motivation of his plans is for Earth domination and revenge against Ultraman Ace for humiliating defeats, uncaring if any civilians caught in their conflict.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#106609: Jan 19th 2018 at 6:48:49 AM

[up]I haven't watched that one due to it being one of the very first series ever. Though it's possible he does qualify as I heard he would serve as an archetype and prototype which would later be reused for our other famous Ultra series keeps like Dark Zagi, Dark Lugiel and Belial. So PM that person.

edited 19th Jan '18 6:56:31 AM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#106610: Jan 19th 2018 at 6:51:13 AM

Catching up

[tup] to Vierra,Pierre and Pope

[tdown] to Goblin

What did I miss?

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#106611: Jan 19th 2018 at 6:54:38 AM

So, before I get started on Pope's write-up, how do I handle the title, since the comic shares the same name as the film it's based on?

Why so serious?
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#106612: Jan 19th 2018 at 7:03:15 AM

[up] Hmmmm I don't know about that. Maybe Planet of the Apes prequel comic?

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#106613: Jan 19th 2018 at 7:22:13 AM

Agreed about sending a PM to the person. We could be looking at a CM prototype like Gruber or Black Cross Fuhrer,

Here's a slight rewrite for Lynch:

  • Charles "Charlie" Lynch, from season 4's "Nobody's Child" and "Goodbyes", is a remorseless psychopath. He viciously beats and strangles five-year-old girl Annie Lewis to death, solely because he feels she may have disrespected him. After the murder, Lynch opts to target Annie's twin sister Dar-Lin for fun. He later kidnaps said sister and hold her hostage to torment her mentally before he plans on murdering her as well. In addition, he also kills his Master Chief, as well as two other women, one of whom—the aunt of Annie and Dar-Lin—he stomps to death just like he did Annie.

edited 19th Jan '18 12:54:11 PM by ACW

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#106614: Jan 19th 2018 at 9:33:55 AM

Alright.....I felt that I want to effortpost another candidate and actually this time.....This candidate in question was from my country Indonesia. So I watched this obscure flick that I never heard before in my country and after seeing this. I think I'm fine to effortpost this candidate in question. Albeit with hesitation. So with that being said, I also think this will not only be my first candidate from my country, but also my first candidate from a cult classic B-Movie horror film. Without further ado, let's begin.

What's the Work

Mystics In Bali or Mistik in my language is an 1981 Indonesian supernatural horror cult classic film directed by H. Tjut Djalil that tells us the story of a foreign student called Catherine “Cathy” Kean who travels to Bali for researching about “Voodoo” and “Black Magic” in there so that she could write her own book about Occult Stuffs. With the aid of her lover Mahendra, Cathy then meets with The Old Woman with long fingernails that was known as Queen of Leak........Which is the candidate I will be proposing today

Who Is She/What Has She Done

Queen of Leak is an old woman who is actually a witch who practiced a black magic in Bali that was known as, well you guess it, Leak. Cathy and Mahendra met her after the Thunderstorm. Her establishing character moment is that she cackles a lot and she had a pretty.....interesting evil laugh to say at least. Mahendra then makes a pact with The Queen so that she could teach Cathy the aforementioned black magic. And before departing, The Queen then shakes her hand with Cathy and then left her severed arm in Cathy's grip which scares her.

The next night, Cathy and Mahendra brought some of the things that the Queen of Leak asks like the bottle of blood and the jewel. The Queen, who appear as a tongue, then orders Mahendra to put the jewel on Cathy's hands and then also orders him to gave her the bottle filled with bloods so that she could satisfy her thirst. After this, then the Queen orders Cathy to take off her skirt and then carves her spell in Cathy's thigh and then gives her a cloth full of black magic . The Queen then tells Cathy to bring the cloth and wore an undergarment known as Tapis tomorrow night and then orders Mahendra to not come with her.

Well, You may see these things as a generic dealing with the devil stuff. However, she almost hits the trope in the midway of the movie. See, after studying the Leak magic, Cathy received some weird visions regarding her destroying a wall of fire. Which translate into "Cathy killed people somewhere else" and Cathy was shocked by this revelation. After this then Cathy felt sick and tolds Mahendra that the Queen will cure her illness tonight......However, this wasn't the case.

When she meets again with the Queen later night, Cathy's head then disintegrates from her body and then she was being controlled by the Queen. She then orders Cathy to attack an innocent pregnant woman in her home by sucking out the unborn baby from the mother's womb.

After this, The Queen then said that she succeeded to control Cathy’s head but she wants more blood so that she could be "younger and stronger" and after this, she then cures Cathy’s illness. She then gave Cathy the choices if she wants to become her disciple or not. However, Cathy refuses and said she already has enough training from her and then walks away. However, the Queen said that she won’t letting Cathy getting away so easily and still wanting to control Cathy’s body forever. Thanks to the blood that Cathy devoured, The queen then becomes youthful again and then the two transform into snakes. Cathy then wakes in her human form, however she vomits some mice after her long sleep.

In the following night, the Queen and Cathy then transform into fireballs and then defeat one of the Queen’s enemies. When an unknown woman spots Cathy’s head flying, she then tells Mahendra’s uncle, Machesse, about this and Machesse informs his colleague about the Queen and her plans for becoming more powerful by ripping three person lives. And in another night, Cathy then encounters the Queen of Leak’s rejuvenated self and then the Queen asked Cathy to kill another person again so that she could live forever. However, Cathy refuses but unfortunately, the queen manages to control her head. Machesse then founds Cathy’s headless body while Cathy was thwarted by other villagers. Machesse then tells Mahendra that Cathy isn’t the woman that he loves anymore and she was controlled by someone who practices black magic and after this, they proceed to bury her body.

Later that night when Machesse and his niece are performing the ritual, The Queen then appears before them along with Cathy’s head and then told him to stop interfering with her affairs. The Queen then uses her powers to resurrect Cathy’s headless body and then electrocutes and brutally kills Machesse by almost decapitating him. Suddenly, an unknown woman who is revealed to be Mahendra’s lover, attack the queen. However, this was proven to be fruitless and then the queen attacks Mahendra's lover and she dies from her wounds. Fortunately, Mahendra’s another uncle, Gede Oka, comes into rescue by attacking the queen. The Queen then transforms into a giant humanoid pig but fortunately, Oka stabs her with a dagger. But even then, the Queen then transforms into a masked figure and then shoots an evil energy at Oka. However, Oka fortunately repels her attack and then the Queen was killed by the sunrise.

Freudian Excuse/Mitigating Factors

She has none. She may appear affable enough to Cathy and Mahendra at first. However, she wanted to use Cathy as her slave after Cathy studied with her. And she also have a motivation to become younger and stronger again by killing some innocent people so that's something. And while you could call the film an exploitation film and sometimes it's a little bit weird and campy , Bu itt has an enough story and character and not only that, I felt that the Queen was treated as a serious threat so pass.

Heinous Standard

I'm going to be honest......Her bodycount isn't that impressive. Given that she has 1 indirect brutal murder by Cathy (The pregnant mother scene),2 murders (Her fireball enemy and her decapitation of Machesse) and another murder by self-defense. However, I think she makes it given the brutal nature of the murder and murdering a pregnant woman by mind control felt kind of unique enough. But I'm not sure if she could pass it. So yeah....

Final Verdict

Any thoughts on this B-Movie candidate? I think I'm fine if you found her not heinous enough given her bodycount wasn't that impressive. However, I think she could almost make it with her own special niche. And if she qualifies. She'd be another CM from Indonesia other than the likes of Sadono,Mukharno or Bejo so yeah........

edited 19th Jan '18 9:34:30 AM by ElfenLiedFan90

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#106616: Jan 19th 2018 at 10:08:49 AM

I might... just lean to yea on the Queen. If absolutely nothing else, ordering a pregnant woman horribly murdered leaves her flirting with the baseline.

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#106617: Jan 19th 2018 at 10:17:29 AM

[tup] the Queen I guess. Not to sound jaded. I don't think I'm jaded...

TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#106618: Jan 19th 2018 at 10:29:27 AM

I think I'm gonna have to abstain on the Queen, it's a bit too borderline for me to decide either way right now.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#106619: Jan 19th 2018 at 10:55:30 AM

[up][up]I know how you feel man as the number of total psychos that pass through here is enough to mess with how you view how bad somone is.

That said slight [tup] to the Queen as I think brutally murdering a Pregnant woman just pushes her over.

edited 19th Jan '18 10:55:54 AM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
G-Editor Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#106620: Jan 19th 2018 at 12:26:44 PM

I'll give a tentative [tup] to the Queen

JoeBlitz Call me... Del Noir... Since: Dec, 2016
Call me... Del Noir...
#106621: Jan 19th 2018 at 12:30:33 PM

Weak [tup] to the Queen of Leak.

"Now I have a machine gun. Ho ho ho."
xie323 Since: Jul, 2009
#106622: Jan 19th 2018 at 1:19:06 PM

@106606

From what I heard Yapool could qualify, however he would need an effortpost, and one that covers his crimes in 3 shows—he appears in Ultraman Ace, Ultraman Taro, and Ultraman Mebius, all of which are set in the same universe.

IIRC Commander Black from Ultraman Leo is also worth discussing.

Also, do you all see the possibility we might need to create a game mod section in the future in Other Media in the future, that is assuming we start to do more E Ps on potential qualifiers from game mods as long as it isn't edgy fanfic level writing.

edited 19th Jan '18 1:22:35 PM by xie323

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#106624: Jan 19th 2018 at 1:35:38 PM

[tup]Queen, I guess.

Anyways, I'll take care of the title issues later, but for now, here's Pope.

  • Dawn of the Planet of the Apes: Pope is a brutal chimpanzee and the commander of Caesar's ape soldiers. Believing that Caesar's rule has made the ape society weak, Pope desires to wrest power from the Ape King through any means necessary. Subjugating a tribe of primal apes by killing their alpha, Pope forces them to undergo vicious training to mold them into loyal soldiers with which to use to conquer Caesar's colony. Demonstrating his cruelty by having a dissenting ape tortured and fed to a polar bear, Pope proceeds to have dozens of humans and apes alike rounded up and caged with the intention of using them as slave fodder. When confronted on his inhumane treatment towards his fellow apes, Pope casually decries them as not apes, but mere "dumb animals".

Why so serious?
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#106625: Jan 19th 2018 at 2:29:05 PM

I'll give a slight yes to the Queen as well.


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