During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Goku Black
I'll abstain as I don't think 4 murders is enough with demon summoning and attempted world conquering in the same setting.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
In love with an Uptown Girl
Shall I add Wrecker's sheet yet?
Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Sure, go ahead.
Okay, for everyone complaining about the main Monster pages and subpages not being updated "in time"? BE. PATIENT. It has been stated more than once now that the admins are going through technical issues. They will update it when they're ready. Stop rushing them.
I'm leaning towards ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Geoff the Murderer, but I would like to hear a bit more about these other two villains.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Vampire: Any approved candidates, please add the writeups to the Drafts,
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Yea....About Lord Wretchedly, You may want to see this video just in case:
Also, I felt that Geoff still almost a keeper due to resources and his methods on killing the victims and also, Marvo probably will be my next proposal but we'll see...This is why I'm dubious a bit
edited 20th Nov '17 7:30:04 AM by ElfenLiedFan90
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
In love with an Uptown Girl
Wrecker has been added.
Now I got to do Jack. Great.
Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
I feel Geoff just makes it, given the gruesome nature of his murders and his just being a normal human puts him way below a hypnotic cat and a dude who (almost) has a demon on his side so he's a slight yeah from me.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
BTW, Septimus has taken care of last week's 1st batch. The second batch will be submitted tomorrow, then when that's done, I'll do the most recent batch.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
In love with an Uptown Girl
How words do I need to do for Jack in total? I have it written at about 194 right now.
Should probably make it less.
Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
I don't see there ever being a lot of discussion on Scythe Master back in the day. Would people like if I provided an EP for the sake of clarity when I do his rewrite?
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Oh, 194's nowhere NEAR long enough.
An effortpost might be a good idea.
V
I agree on Wizzro @Voyd 211.
Goku Black
Alright upon thinking about it I'll give a to Geoff
In love with an Uptown Girl
So, here's what I got for Jack.
- Three Years In Hell: Jack purchases Elisa from a human trafficking organization, and leaves her locked in a room in unhealthy conditions, giving her only the occasional beard and water, for over eighteen months. When she is released, Jack tells her that she is now his slave, and immediately forces her to clean up her own vomit. When his girlfriend, Tammy, who has caused to be as abusive as himself, points out that Elisa is in no condition to work, he strangles her. After killing another man, he makes Elisa dispose of the corpse. When Elisa begins to hit puberty, Jack decides to make her his sex slave, revealing he killed a previous girl for rejecting his advances when she refuses, lying about keeping her head as a trophy. When Elisa gets pregnant, he forces her against her will to have a traumatic abortion, only showing concern for her because he can’t buy a replacement, which ends up leaving Elisa sterile, taking a picture of the aftermath before proudly giving Elisa the aborted fetus, and it is taken from her, informs her he sees her as nothing more than his property. When he brutally mutilates Tammy, he tries to make Elisa finish her off. This finally causes Elisa to snap and kill him. A sadistic, apathetic, hedonistic sociopath, Jack defines the worst in humanity.
edited 20th Nov '17 9:35:32 AM by Vampireandthen
Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
King of Despair
I'm gonna ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Geoff. There is a line where resources don't help much, and other characters trying to enslave cities and unleash demons is over that line.
Wizzro's gonna need an effortpost.
In love with an Uptown Girl
On second thought, yeah, I'm giving a to Geoff as well.
Yeah, I'm just going to say "no" to Wizzro on principle. The issue of him being Made of Evil aside, I cannot recall him being anywhere near heinous enough — his personality is nasty, but I can't recall his actions being anything more than generic villainy.
edited 20th Nov '17 11:03:45 AM by Scraggle
@NTG: Of a CM has an OOC moment of kindness they are no longer a CM. We make exceptions for some Depending on the Writer shenanigans, but this is something we tend to have a hard rule on.
I recall Freddy's Nightmare's version of Freddy had a weird moment where he seemed to denounce drugs, but that was so weird we decided to quietly ignore that. Especially considering he's used drugs to torture people.
If a villain has a moment that's at odds with the rest of their character, I shall judge it on a case by case basis.
In this moment I have made my case and decision on Hela.
...
.....
.
INSTEAD OF A DARK LORD YOU SHALL HAVE A QUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEN
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
Mkay. So, 27 , 13 , 4 abstain, 1 PolarPhantom.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Were you one of the four who originally abstained? Or have you not voted yet?
edited 20th Nov '17 11:47:07 AM by Tyk5919
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
In love with an Uptown Girl
After thinking it over.... to Hela. Mainly because she seems a bit sympathetic when it comes to Fenris,
Goku Black
Changing to on Geoff as he shares the setting with world conquerors and demon s ummoners , so cant count. Helll my own profile image has the pink haired lady/kagura/envy who kills 4 people but shares the setting with blue haired guy/Gallerian/Greed who is a hanging judge who lets people off the hook for crimes for the right price and green haired lady/Nemesis/wrath who is the leader of a country which wages war and intends on conquering the world with her on-screen act being sinking a ship with 7 people. You could argue she's just a tailor unlike them who are rulers except both are so much worse and have a higher body count, so she can't count even with resources. Before anyone asks Gallerian loves his deceased daughter and Nemesis is A Father to His Men as well as cares for her lover, so they don't count either.
edited 20th Nov '17 12:11:44 PM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
The issue is resources.
In the books of Richard Patterson, the killer Eddie Fleet from the book Conviction has less resources than villains like Mc Donald Gage (the corrupt head of the republican party) or Saeb Khalid (the mastermind of the assassination of Israel's prime minister). The thing is Eddie does a LOT with what he has and causes a LOT of misery (it also helps that he has NO redeeming qualities, unlike Saeb who has a freudian excuse to explain why he hates israel and Gage who is genuinely horrified when he indirectly causes the death of a rival's daughter). Hence why Eddie Fleet is considered a complete monster and the other two aren't.
Edit: Hela; I couldn't help but feel bad for her in that Odin raised her as a weapon and than decided abruptly to stop being an asshole, which left Hela a confused wreck. From her perspective Odin saw her as a weapon more than a child and she resents being thrown aside. That gives her a bit of pathos.
edited 20th Nov '17 12:34:57 PM by LordYAM
Alright, I apologize for this being late, but the more I think about Hela... is it okay if I change my mind and shoot a late "yes" her way?
While initially feeling that she just barely missed the mark, I took some time to think her over and decided that Polar Phantom's reasoning for saying yes to her make sense: she values people who are loyal and useful to her but truly doesn't care about them at the end of the day. I now see where Lighty and the other people who voted "yes" are coming from with their argument that she values Fenris the way she'd value say, a prized rifle or family axe, so yeah: I've seen the light. :^y
PS: While Cate Blanchett looked... well, devilishly attractive in the role, Hela was a big step down from previous interesting MCU villains. I can only hope and pray that Killmonger, Klaw, Ghost, Whoever-the-hell-Carol-Danvers-fights, and Thanos end up continuing the trend that the likes of Zemo, Ego, and Vulture set.
Also, I noticed that the Dowager has been added to the YMMV page for Exalted's spirit characters, but not to Monster/TabletopGames.
edited 20th Nov '17 6:50:17 AM by Voyd211