Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Alrighty, so here's my writeup for Dishonored 2.

The Setting

Dishonored is set in a steampunk-type world, primarily in the nation of Dunwall ruled by the benevolent Empress Jessamine Kaldwin. Now, the city is undergoing a horrible plague that Jessamine is trying to combat...it turns out the plague was deliberately spread to kill the poor by her royal spymaster Hiram Burrows. To cover his tracks, Jessamine is murdered and her daughter kidnapped, Jessamine's royal protector (and lover) Corvo Attano is framed...rescued by loyalists who aim to depose Burrows, Corvo is rescued and recruited...and also gifted with supernatural powers by a mysterious, otherworldly being known as The Outsider who likes to...stir the pot every so often and grant interesting people powers just to see what they do with them.

Now, canonically, Corvo sames Jessamine's daughter Emily (his daughter as well), and restores her to the throne...15 years later? Emily is ruling best she can, when the Duke from the nation of Serkonos arrives and...introduces Emily to a woman claiming to be her aunt: Jessamine's illegitimate sister, the witch Delilah Copperspoon, who enacts a brutal coup and claims the throne for herself. Either Corvo or Emily escape while the other is frozen in stone, and begin to strive to depose Delilah and recover the Dunwall throne.

Who Is She?

Delilah Copperspoon, or Delilah Kaldwin. Illegitimate sister of Jessamine by the Emperor. As a little girl, Delilah was visited by her father frequently, but he refused to take her to court, constantly breaking his promises to her. However, Delilah found a friendship with her half-sister...until one day, Jessamine broke something expensive and blamed her for it. Delilah and her mother were thrown out into the streets. Before long, they entered a debtor's prison and Deilah's mother sickened and died. Delilah found odd jobs, eventually becoming a maid in a brothel where she took to painting on the side of the walls. She was discovered by a genius painter and inventor named Anton Sokolov who took her as an apprentice.

It was here Delilah delved into research of the Void and was granted powers of her own. Striving for more out of life, Delilah formed a coven of witches known as the Brigamore Witches, infiltrating the Dunwall underworld, plotting to take that which she felt had been denied her...

What's She Done?

Delilah first appears in the first Dishonored DLC, Knife of Dunwall and Brigamore Witches where you play as Empress Jessamine's murderer, Daud, who has grown to have horrible doubts about his actions for what it's done to the city. Delilah infiltrates the underworld, manipulating and destroying those in her way while having her witches torture others in horrific ways (one is implicitly forced to cannibalize his comrades).

Delilah also plans to steal Emily's body: tearing her soul out and replacing it with her own. However, Daud, in an act of heroism unknown to all but himself and Delilah, sabotaged her ritual, sending her into the void to drift forever. The fate she'd intended for her niece...

Except Delilah's willpower and cunning was second to none. She fought her way back from the Void, and several of her old allies, including her lover/second in the witches, Breanna Ashworth, performed a dark ritual to return her to the material world. To protect her own life, Delilah removed her own spirit and hid it away safely in the Duke of Serkonos' private vault...and set about to undermine her niece. One of their group was a kind doctor the Duke had tricked into testing an experimental serum on herself, giving rise to a monstrous split personality. Delilah directed her to begin murdering critics and enemies of Emily, leading to dark whispers that Emily was having them murdered.

Then Delilah attacked, slaughtering servants and maids in the castle, while turning many others to living stone, including Corvo/Emily depending on who you play as (for simplicity sake, I'm going to assume Emily is the PC). Delilah also has Anton Sokolov abducted and tortured by the group's inventor, Jindosh.

Emily steadily eliminates Delilah's allies and uncovers her plans. On return to Dunwall..it's become a blackened, burnt out horror. When the religious order, the Overseers stood against her, Delilah massacred them, and has executed tons of people, corpses strewn over the streets or hanging from nooses everywhere. Delilah then reveals her true scheme: to 'repaint' the world in a ritual that will create it anew and Mind Rape every living thing into worshiping her forever...Emily either kills her there, or in the nonlethal options, sabotages her ritual, trapping Delilah in an illusionary world where she lives out her fantasy forevermore, as an adored god-empress, as the world goes on without her.

Heinous by the standard of the story?

Oh, god yes. Delilah's body count is enormous. The only one who comes close is Lord Regent Hiram Burrows and his revolting 'kill the poor' plague...and the Outsider himself if you view the plague's...expansion beyond the poor as his private little joke. Neither counts, as the Lord Regent has one redeeming quality, and the Outsider is an alien being who is just as liable to help or harm. Delilah is obsessed with creating The World As It Should Be with her on top. The kingdoms of the earth are nothing but sacrifices to her for her whims. It's to the point where the Outsider, usually a disinterested, mocking figure is actively trying to screw Delilah over before she supplants him as even he's getting spooked by her.

So, yeah, pass here.

Redeeming Qualities and Freudian Excuse?

Now HERE'S the problem...now, the story goes out of its way to discuss that Delilah's backstory does not absolve or excuse her for her monstrosity. She and Emily are both illegitimate royal bastards who have fought for what they have, bt while Emily takes her lessons to mean that nobody has a right to rule because they were born to it, and that true rulership is service to the people, Delilah has developed a god-complex where she deserves to rule over people and receive their love whether they want to give it to her or not.

However, Delilah's backstory is awful. She was an innocent little girl blamed in a moment of weakness by a spoiled little brat for something and thrown into the streets even though her father could easily have provided for them. (Emily notes that for all the stories of her grandfather's nobility and service to his people, she's disgusted by his broken promises and callousness, and even by her mother's selfishness as a child), and had to endure her mother dying, scraping from the bottom in horrible conditions to become the evil witch she came. Now, it's telling Delilah's perfect world doesn't involve her mother coming back, but just being adored by everyone she rules over as slaves...but there are moments when her spirit comments icily that while Jessamine lies in the royal tomb, her mother's bones rot in an anonymous grave because Delilah couldn't afford a coffin. It's possible, and suggested that some of this is filtered through Delilah's completely unreliable narration and self-serving need for self-pity, but the Outsider implies that it's true and Jessamine's soul wonders if it's her fault Delilah became what she did. It's even the source of her name: Jessamine was born with the figurative silver spoon in her mouth. Delilah only ever had a copper one.

Furthermore, Delilah's interactions with Breanna and Luca Abele, the Duke of serkonos are...questionable. She's affectionate towards Breanna outwardly, along with Luca...however, when Breanna is disabled by being depowered, Delilah is angry you've removed Breanna because you took away something 'beautiful' from her and then coolly says she'll never speak to Breanna again because she's too pitiful as a shade of her former self. However, when you fight Delilah at the end, she snarls you'll "pay for what you did to breanna!" So, take that as you will. Furthermore, Breanna is the only witch who gets this since when she plans to steal Emily's body, Delilah sends her strongest witches after Daud...specifically so he'll kill them and she doesn't have to worry about them backstabbing her when she's in a ten year old's body.

Finally, her feelings to Jessamine are very complex. She loathes her sister on one hand, and shows no sympathy towards Jessamine's death. However, the Outsider crafted an item called The Heart and stuck Jessamine's soul inside it, which helps 'guide' the heroes. When Emily gets Delilah's spirit, Jessamine's own spirit is released. Delilah says later, in seeming sincerity, she's glad her sister has found peace in death.

Conclusion?

At the end, Delilah is a monster. A remorseless monster, who kills countless people all for a world where she can reign supreme. She's got a horrible entitlement complex, she's horrifically cruel and has the most grandiose plans in the setting.

But...at the end, Delilah had a horrific backstory, and she seems genuinely traumatized by it. Her awful upbringing has left her with a drive to never be helpless ever again, and a thirst for power. As bad as she is...she never really knew what it was like to be happy. It's worth noting Jessamine eventually became a wise, kind empress who loved her people, but Delilah wasn't really given the chance to better herself. She had a life of pain, misery and sadness, and for all her crimes, living out her fantasy harmlessly in her own world while the world itself moves on without her...might be what's best.

So, between this, and her ambiguous care for others, I think Delilah is ultimately too multi-dimensional and in the end, too tragic a villain to qualify here. Even at the end, it's said she could have genuinely bettered the world and the loss of potential is a tragic thing.

edited 9th Dec '16 6:42:01 PM by Lightysnake

I never once thought Delilah would count. Good effort post though.

I'd agree she doesn't count as she sounds too complex and tragic.

Yeah, for Delilah. Monstrous, but with too much depth to fully qualify. Very well-written character (in a very well-written game, I'd heartily recommend both Dishonoreds to anyone who thinks this all sounds interesting).

Deliah.

Delilah. She's an example of a three-dimensional, if heinous villain.

A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.

A no on Deliah... sort of a shame as she's real nasty.

Just to be clear on this, the reason Disney and Cartoon Network pages get Monster entries but not Nintendo is that D and CN groups their villains to an extent Nintendo doesn't? The only time and place Nintendo has grouped them that I know of is Smash Bros. How have D and CN's groupings been stronger?

Disney's an obvious one. All the stories share the same universe (confirmed by Kingdom Hearts) while CN I'm not sure about. Steven Universe definitely isn't in the same realm as Adventure Time or Regular Show. (Maybe the latter, but AT is way too bizarre to be in the same universe as SU) Then again, Nickelodeon has a page too iirc, and none of the stories share the same universe.

Also Nintendo seems kinda pointless now that I think about it. About 75% of the examples would be from Pokemon or Fire Emblem and both of those series already have a dedicated page.

Finally, I understand I can't just research a villain. I've tried getting examples by with just research and they didn't go so well. Guess someone else will have to do Final Fantasy XV after all. I'm still planning to do Breath of the Wild though.

edited 9th Dec '16 7:54:14 PM by Klavice

No to Delilah. Backstory too sad.

Kingdom Hearts is not evidence all Disney stories are a conjoined universe. KH is an adaptation of sorts, not the actual flesh-and-blood material. Outside of some mutual cameos and some wild speculation, there's literally no canon evidence every Disney film is connected outside of the say of something like House of Mouse... even if they were all part of the same universe, without the use of a DC/Marvel-esque multiverse there'd be so many continuity and canon issues it would be absolutely nightmarish to sort through.

Beyond that, I think Disney and CN still having their own pages is more of a grandfather clause than anything else.

edited 9th Dec '16 8:03:57 PM by Scraggle

edited 9th Dec '16 9:15:16 PM by username2527

So what's the purpose of having CN and Disney if it's proven that they don't share universes? I initially thought it had something to do with there being a surplus of examples that were enough to warrant its own page. That idea was brought up when a page was considered for Nickelodeon. If I remember correctly, there were only 5 examples from Nick.

But other than that, I would lean towards the idea of being a grandfather clause.

edited 9th Dec '16 8:42:36 PM by AustinDR

Has anyone else besides me played the Hong Kong expansion of Shadowrun Returns? We decided Dr. Holmes/The Emerald City Ripper from the first game didn't count due to heinous issues stemming from the tabletop game, but I believe the Big Bad from Hong Kong likely crosses over that line quite nicely.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.

Found this under Magi: Labyrinth of Magic.

[[Sinbad]] after reaching the Scared Palace and becoming God. [[Sinbad]]used the Ruhk to brainwash the entire world into peace. He now seeks to go higher and to do requires him to sacrifice the entire world. Made worse by the fact they're all happy to die for him.

I went ahead and deleted it.

Yeah, Sinbad doesn't count at all, as bad as he's gotten.

Well to Delilah

You know its kind of like comparing Lusamine. both are easily heinous individuals but have enough tragic factors to disqualify them

Kind of late, but might as well throw in my for KH Frollo.

I wonder if putting the KH Disney villains on the "never again" list would be a good idea. I feel like they've come up a lot recently and have been repeatedly shot down.

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?

Delilah

Did KH!Frollo come up? Personally I'd say he's still the most heinous Disney villain even in KH and might have been a keeper had Xehanort and his crimes not been such a huge presence that eclipsed him in that very game.

Barring a massive departure from its usual style none of the Disney villains in KH will ever count.

Agree with a moratorium on Criminal Minds.

Easy "no" to Delilah; reminds me of Robert Quarles or Rau Le Creuset in that sense.

Delilah

My effortpost schedule has changed. Tomorrow I'll be watching Phenomena.

edited 10th Dec '16 1:23:02 AM by DemonDuckofDoom

Delilah. She really sounds like an interresting villain.

edited 10th Dec '16 3:40:27 AM by MiraiYuji

I too think Cartoon Network and Disney were grandfathered in (just like the subpages with only 5 entries), but damned if I'm gonna make the mods merge them with the main pages (ESPECIALLY the former)

---

Besides the MK group, here's what else is pending:

• Duke Nikslaus (Lightysnake)
• Gargorgon (CyberXIII)
• General Vykar (Ekimmak)
• Mason Turner (FriedWarthog)

edited 10th Dec '16 4:44:49 AM by ACW

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts

There was also Devour; Silverblade 2 needs to do the writeup on Satan.

edited 10th Dec '16 5:03:23 AM by AustinDR