During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Zillis, Valis, Vassago and Corky.
their is this game I have called Tears to Tiara II: Heir of the Overlord, I have not beaten the game but their is this one slave driver that might count as a cm seeing how he is different then the other slave driver and does more then them the thing is,
that all of the slave driver's looks the same and have the same name and are part of a group.
and their are other villains as well some don't count and some might count their is also a war taking place as well.
Just to be clear, can anyone add to Complete Monster Discussion Dates?
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Absolutely. As you can see I clearly know very little about upcoming books or comics or anything anime/manga related; I mostly just knocked out the films and some games. Feel free to post anything else up there if you want.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
For NCIS, I'm not sure if Bankston or Clairmont count, and I don't feel like watching the eps 
. I hope to watch Landis's ep tonight, and the Criminal Minds ones tomorrow.
Fire Emblem Fates will be released on May 20 in Europe. Is it relevant to any discussion? Has any character already been discussed?
nope no characters have been talked about
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Dude, I'm begging you, please try to stay on topic (and please...stop with the run-on sentences).
well can you tell me what the topic is about because it look's like their is more then one going on
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
no to the cm post on the last page and to the three killers from 2 pages ago I think that's right?
I spent a few minutes searching previous pages to see if this was in any way relevant. I got nothing as a result.
edited 3rd May '16 12:44:54 PM by Awesomekid42
Doesn't even like this username
for the Koontz villains. I also edited the sandbox to add that it's the US release date that counts for the purposes of this thread (plus a bunch of films).
edited 3rd May '16 1:53:17 PM by LordXavius
to Zillis, Vallis, Vassago, and Corky.
Unsure on Bansai Ichiyanagi.
to Bansai Ichiyanagi
Wild Child
Bansai.
Planeswalker
Unsure on Bansai. Gonna abstain.
Oissu!
Okay I think I’ve found another candidate. Here is Maxwell Tate from Blindspot.
Who is he: The main antagonist of the Season One episode “Rules In Defiance.” Tate is a rich and powerful businessman who has been running a forced prostitution organisation for at least seven years. He has a corrupted immigration agent select women who are supposed to be deported to Mexico. Then when they are on transit, his thugs abducted at a stop.
Afterwards they are taken to an abandoned gated community he owns, where he’s converted one of the buildings into a brothel. He keeps the women in the basement under the control of his goons, in conditions where they can dress up well for guests but get punished even for not speaking English. It is here in this house, that he holds secret lavish parties for the rich and powerful, where the women are repeatedly raped and forced to do whatever the guest wants.
According to Paterson hundreds of women have gone missing through his operation (we only see ten victims and twenty photographs of missing women, but nothing outright contradicts this number) over the years.
What does he do: Seven years before the episode takes place, at one such party one woman, Paloma Diaz, was killed by a client to cover up the death, he had another woman, Camila Solis, who was friends with her dispose of the body, and Tate then allows her ex-boyfriend (from before she was supposed to be deported) Ronnie Vargas to be blamed for murder, having a false case that he was abusive built up to make it look like he smuggled Paloma back into the country, then raped and strangled her.
Vargas protested his innocence, so to silence him Tate had Vargas’s sister’s home burned to the ground with his sister and her three children inside, they didn’t die but the act worked as it terrified Ronnie into pretending to be guilty, despite this guaranteeing he would be executed. He also had an immigration officer who could confirm Ronnie’s innocence silenced by having his agent threaten him with a false sexual harassment claim and cost him his job. (It’s not clear how much direct involvement Tate had in this, but he certainly gave the orders to silence the two men.)
In the present the FBI get a tip that leads them to realise Vargas is innocent, with his execution only a day away they manage to uncover that Vargas is being threatened and discover that women are going missing, from this they deduce their being abducted. Having no time for anything else, Agent Tasha Zapta goes undercover in the place of a woman who was marked to be abducted to lead them to the mastermind behind the operation.
However it goes wrong and they lose Zapata. Waking up in Tate’s brothel, on the night of one of his such parties, Tate is alerted to her, after she gets into a fight with one of his goons who was trying to beat another woman for talking to her. Checking the file he confirms she’s not the same woman and determines she’s most likely fed.
Realising this means they could be on him any minute, he cancels the party and plans to clear out. To cover up what he’s been up to, he has all the women (ten of them including Zapata) locked in the basement, and then has the entire building set alight to cover up everything he did.
However Agents Kurt Weller and Reede arrive just as Tate and his goons are making their escape, a firefight breaks out with them killing Tate’s men. Realising he’s going to lose Tate takes Camila as a hostage at gunpoint to try and secure his escape. But she manages to bite his hand causes him to lose his grip. Weller incapacitates him and he is captured.
Afterwards Assistant Director Mayfair confirms he’s been sentenced on over a hundred charges.
Heinous Standard: The show does have a quite high heinous standard, with the team regularly facing terrorists, murders and such. However Tate is the first and so far only slaver. Likewise save a several terrorists who don’t qualify due to either being organisations or due to redeeming traits, no one up to date has tried to kill as many people as he did all at once.
Any redeeming Traits or Freudian excuse: None, Tate is quite calm and seemingly friendly at several points, such as when he’s interrogating Zapata. But it’s pure Faux Affably Evil.
He does elevate Camila from being a prostitute to helping with organisation after she disposes of Paloma's body and even calls her his special helper. However he only doesn’t leave her to burn with the rest because in his own words “she might be useful” and afterwards he’s happy to point a gun at her to save his own skin. Likewise she was only in the position because he kidnapped her and forced her into it in the first place.
It’s stated his goons aren’t supposed to seriously hurt the girls, however this only cause visible wounds decease their value (its outright stated). Likewise considering that one of his thugs, who previously seriously beat a woman was still guarding them the next night and was just about to beat her again. It’s safe to say his penalties for doing so aren’t the strict and he only cares about how much they get him.
Offstage Villainy: My only concern is that Tate himself doesn’t appear much in the episode. He gets around two or three scenes. However we do see the effects of his actions (through photos and two in depth flashbacks) as well as one clearly traumatised victim of his who went so far to antagonise a thug to beat her, so she wouldn't have to perform that night.
Likewise his brief appearance cements him with just enough characterisation giving him a calm superficial level of charm, covering a borderline sociopathic casualness when committing murder on a massive scale.
Now it’s going into Fridge Horror, but the episode never does elaborate what happened to all the other women he abducted over the years, as I said before he only had ten when he tried to burn the building the ground.
Conclusion: Having done everything from abduction, forced prostitution, framing an innocent person and attempting mass murder, I think he qualifies.
edited 3rd May '16 5:01:15 PM by MGD107
Wild Child
Maxwell.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Maxwell. Seems to appear just enough to qualify.
Man, I'm looking over the CSI baddies, and starting to wonder if some of them are really bad enough (Klinfelds only have 4 victims, Mulvaney has 2 or 3, Leland has 1, while Patterson has 1). There might be others who count, but screw it, I'm exhausted from my NCIS and Criminal Minds research. Eventually though I'll have to scrub the Cold Case wikia for others.
edited 3rd May '16 5:20:48 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
All the Cold Case examples were well-discussed. Each of them occupies a different "sphere" of evil, so to speak: Mulvaney is the worst domestic abuser, Patterson the worst psychological abuser, Smith the worst Serial Killer, Larkin the worst rapist, and so on.
edited 3rd May '16 5:41:11 PM by HamburgerTime
Well, the effort-post needs work, but I saw the episode in question, so to Maxwell Tate.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Hmm, you may be onto something. Freely worst pedophile, Leland worst racist? I may wanna see Disco Inferno: Highest bodycount for the series,
Final NCIS one, for now at least, from me. This will be a brief effortpost.
- James Landis from season 3's "Ravenous".
- Park Ranger who's actually a Serial Killer. 26 victims (mainly female), with another tied up and planned to be killed. Makes deaths look like an accident. For at least 3 of the victims he beat them, then killed them 7-10 days later. He tries to escape, before Gibbs shoots him in the ass
![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]")
- No Freudian Excuse or other disqualifier that we're aware of.
- Final Verdict? Seems an easy to me.
edited 3rd May '16 6:20:38 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts