During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I'll add a ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to Injun Joe as well. He seems a rather standard children's book villain- by standard I mean in the whole plotline of kid heroes stumbling across their plot and the villain naturally trying to kill the kids.
Just asking: how many more votes do we need for Lane?
edited 27th May '15 9:04:16 AM by forsetipurge
A total has-been.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
With Injun Joe, keep in mind we we discussing the version from the Disney film Tom And Huck, who is considerably more brutal and has an additional murder and additional attempted murders (including making an explicit threat to gut a kid to death). His book counterpart is easily a , but the film version could still possibly be an example.
Its 7 for and 8 against now. Unless someone changes their mind or extra votes are tossed in, we'll be dropping Joe.
edited 27th May '15 9:10:10 AM by ANewMan
Nevermind.
edited 27th May '15 9:20:35 AM by VeryMelon
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Unless someone votes against, you could probably do a writeup now.
What about Alex Zogren any thoughts
Zorgen can get a ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
from me.
Criminal Minds really seems to hate the Internet for some reason.
Do we have a writeup for the other Joe yet?
Injun Joe did not really need to kill Huck. Actually, Huck showed up to try and stop Joe from killing Tom. Here is how the scene goes (not exact dialogue but very close):
Tom has found the treasure, and is about to leave when Injun Joe appears behind him and punches him in the face.
Joe: "Looks like I got it all, the treasure and you".
Joe pulls out a knife and is about to stab and kill Tom when Huck appears at the cave exit, jumping down off a ledge and kicking Joe in the chest.
Joe: "I know you, you're Finn's boy, Blueberry".
Huck: "Huckleberry".
Joe: "Your pa taught you anything about fighting"?
Huck: "Plenty".
Joe: "Let's see what you got"!
Huck tries to punch Joe, but Joe grabs his arm and knocks him to the ground with a punch to the face.
Joe: "You got guts boy"...
Joe pulls out his knife.
Joe: "And in a minute they'll be on the ground"!
He didn't need to kill him, he could have broken his bones or knocked him out, killed Tom, and left the cave. I also love how Joe (an adult) is forcing Huck (a child) to fight him with his bare hands.
jjj
@ ACW
I gotta be straight: I'm not sure I can further trim down the write-up I already did.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
For Lane? I'll see what I can do this weekend.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The utterly twisted Diodora Astaroth from High School DXD is initially presented as a smiling, gentlemanly young devil with a bit of a crush on Asia. But his true nature is gradually revealed: a vile, sadistic narcissist with an unhealthy obsession with nuns. He took perverse joy in rape, both physical and mental, to the point that they were utterly broken, upon which he would reincarnate them as his servants who would slavishly pledge their loyalty to them. The only thing that rivals his fetish for nuns and holy maidens is his joy in causing pain, declaring that "expressions of pain, sadness, and despair are the ultimate form of entertainment". It's revealed that he is the one behind Asia's excommunication, being the young devil she healed (of a self-inflicted wound), and had every intention of adding her to his collection.
Okay, it's cool you want to propose someone, but that's really not how we work here. You shouldn't try and write an example right off.
For example, you should specify wether or not their arc is currently ongoing, how they compare to other villains, how much was on-screen, etc. etc. etc.
So far I have 2 for Alex Zorgen I'm going to need more votes on Zorgen if I am going to make a write up for him.
I'll give a to Alex.
Cam I get more votes for Precious' abusive dad who is pretty much Fire Lord Ozai only dirt poor, a serial rapist and a pedophile (he raped his daughter when she was 5 and then again when she was 10).
I'll throw a for the father.
So he's like Fire Lord Ozai. Except he's not a tyrant, not a conqueror, not a magical firebender, not an attempted patricidal murderer, and is a rapist of his spouse's child (Which Ozai assuredly was not).
....all in all, it sounds like he's nothing like Ozai.
Yes for him, Lane and the Criminal Minds example
edited 27th May '15 5:15:18 PM by Lightysnake
On the Blue and Orange Morality it mentions Mayuri Kurotsuchi...is that a valid argument or should I scrub that?
I meant personality wise he's like Ozai.
So far, I have 4 for Alex Zorgen is it okay to create a write up for him or should I wait for more votes to come?
Also if you guys want to create a write up for him to, it is fine also?
edited 27th May '15 6:20:28 PM by G-Editor
So... I guess We are done voting on Injun Joe?
In that case, if no one minds, I will check out Fist Of The North Star if no one else already has once the weekend rolls around.
Also, Hatred will be out 5 days from now. Annyone feel like playing through it or watching a let's play to see if the main character counts?
edited 27th May '15 6:42:27 PM by bobg
jjj
Fine, I'll watch a Hatred Let's Play, if for no other reason than the feeling that someone will bring him up eventually.
I still have my chriminal minds example if anyone is interested
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]")
This one
? So far, three ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]")
votes, plus you, and 0 ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]")
votes.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM DraftsBTW, what about The Bone Collector?