This is the thread we use to talk things over with people who have received a suspension notice. A lot of the time the notice goes out just so we can explain how seriously we take certain things, not because we want the person to feel bad and go away.
If you're suspended, give What to Do If You Are Suspended a read, then post here to begin your appeal. We try to respond to appeals in order via batch posts every few days. If a moderator has responded to your appeal, you will receive a notification in your private messages, even if you're suspended from PMs.
The Forum Rules
apply here.
Don'ts
- Don't be rude. Rule 1 applies here, too.
- Don't try to negotiate your suspension outside of this thread, such as by sending Private Messages to moderators or posting elsewhere. Such activity may be thumped or otherwise removed, and may warrant an additional suspension block if it keeps happening. All communications have to take place within this thread.
- Don't respond to other suspended users. This is a place for you to discuss your suspension, not others'.
- Don't post multiple times about your appeal if it hasn't been a few days since your last reply from us, since it makes it more difficult to compose responses. If you've posted, we're likely looking at it, and kindly request you to be more patient.
- Don't make another account to try and get around your suspension. This is called ban evasion and will get you bounced. (Again, read What to Do If You Are Suspended if you don't know what these words mean.)
Edited by Synchronicity on Jul 15th 2023 at 11:35:01 AM
Lost in Space
In that sentence you left out commas and confused "there" with "their". These are high school mistakes, not professional writer mistakes.
edited 18th Apr '15 9:03:28 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Maybe that's because I'm not a professional writer, but an average person that just wants to add information to a site.
brrraap
If this is about the Drill Sergeant Nasty page, the only thing that Discar would keep linking to was his own post about how the folder titles were bugging him. I asked for an official ruling and the closest thing to it was Rodney Anonymous saying several mods held the position of not liking SD.
verifyvenuz
Hi,
Just got a notice about editing privileges. May they be reinstated?
Second ban for failing to index pages despite warnings. Probably not.
"Yup. That tasted purple."
Lost in Space
~JLink0: Then explain why we have thousands of editors who manage to write to an acceptable standard. I'm sorry, but your ban will remain until your attitude changes.
~Yung Venuz: This wiki operates by consensus. It is not necessary that a member of the staff officially bless a change like the removal of self-demonstrating folder titles; it is enough that a quorum of tropers agree. Your unilateral reversion constitutes an Edit War; it also indicates a willful disregard for the democratic process.
It is also the case that most of the staff agree with the removal of those stupid titles, but that's not relevant here.
edited 19th Apr '15 8:19:50 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
TO Fighteer have you ever thought that maybe it's your attitude that's the problem. I understand the need to make my writing look nice, and I can get requesting that people have decent grammar. I don't understand the need to go this far with it. Do you know that even professional writers have other people proofread there work for a reason?
Yeah, I'm not seeing any chance of salvaging you. Goodbye.
"Yup. That tasted purple."
Hi,
I apologize for not crosswicking and will endeavor to be more consistent about that in the future.
Best, QR
Lost in Space
~Quantum Reality: Not crosswicking, although that's an issue too. Indexing. Since you seem incapable of doing this despite a past suspension, it's up to you to tell us why we should let you edit again.
edited 19th Apr '15 9:40:37 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Actually, I have been quite consistent about cross-indexing. For example my most recent addition, "The Messengers", I made sure to cross-index into the "Series of the 2010s" masterlist of TV series, for example. I did forget to do it for the "funny" page for that series, but as a rule I try to do that for subpages not just main pages. Same for "American Odyssey", as another example - I made sure to cross-index it into "Series of the 2010s".
And yet you have managed to pick up fourteen warnings for not indexing created pages.
"Yup. That tasted purple."
Well, I don't know what more I could be doing; I've cross-indexed those pages as a matter of course after my first warning, at least into "Series of the [decade]" if nothing else. My edit history and the edit history of the pages involved should bear this out.
brrraap
I didn't see any other posts directly addressing the page beyond Discar's, but I apologize for the edit warring.
verifyvenuz
Lost in Space
QR: Not cross-wicking. Indexing. As in adding articles you create to indexes.
edited 19th Apr '15 11:43:17 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Okay, but what sort of indexes are in mind?
e.g. 19th Aug '14 10:10:23 AM Quantum Reality * The Last Ship on Live-Action TV?
Or 19th Apr '15 12:14:40 AM Quantum Reality * The Messengers on Series of the 2010s?
If you want more comprehensive indexing I'll be more than happy to do that.
edited 19th Apr '15 11:49:36 AM by QuantumReality
Now, a couple of weeks later, when, I hope, everyone's emotions have cooled significantly, can I address the issue of my forum ban?
In Best Of's original post, he, acting as one of Moderators, accuse me of all possible sins and transgressions - without allowing me a chance to explain and defend myself.
I'm using this kind of medium to finally defend myself and my statements from a number of accusations that was aimed at me personally:
1) "They're not arguing in good faith". Well, first of all - what is this "arguing in good faith" and where can I have some example of it? Because, AFAIC, "Russian" and "Ukrainian" threads in OTC often degenerated into anti-Russian echo chamber (and a lot of baiting) without any negative consequences for participants here. Such ambivalent wording requires at least some explanation (with a number of examples) to be taken seriously. Or am I asking too much?
2) "...their English is barely legible..." - actually, not true. Users replying to my posts had no trouble understanding me. But, if my grammatic/stylistic mistakes were so offensive to everyone concerned - then why there wasn't any kind of annihilating grammar-nazi crusade before? Surely, if anyone truly wants to prove someone's guilt by listing "erroneous" posts, a lot of good people of the Tv Tropes would find themselves banned.
3) "...they're strawmanning all positions that aren't 100% in favour of Putin and a perceived Russian majority...". I'm actually like to see some examples of that. Really! For an impartial arbiter Best Of is making a very bold claim here.
That's what I'm arguing against - bold claims, no matter by whom, totally unsupported by hard evidence. If asking people to support their statements with some factual data is now considered "strawmanning", well... I'm sorry - I wasn't informed about that. Honestly.
4) "...and they're anti-gay and antisemitic". This is completely untrue.
If you are arguing that I'm "anti-gay" - where is the proof of that? I know, that nowadays it's kind of the "ultimate weapon" against Russians, but, seriously - where is the proof?
As for me being, as Best Of claims, "antisemitic" - again, you need some serious proof for that. As I quoted Tv Tropes own article:
There are two words in Russian that mean "Russians":
- Rossiyane — citizens of the Russian Federation and the RSFSR before that. An unpopular label in Russia, mostly used in government propaganda and thought by most as an example of Political Correctness Gone Mad. Most Russians draw a sharp distinction between ethnic Russian and minority, and it goes even sharper with time as ethnonationalistic sentiments rise.
- Russkie — ethnic Russians. Were called "Great Russians" (Velikorossy) before 1917 (not used today, except for historical purposes)."
I'd never claimed that these persons were not Russians (as in - "citizens of Russia"). I said that they are not "ethnic Russians" - i.e. not "russkie". Why someone can, e.g., point out (without fearing any repercussions) that Charles Aznavour (born Shahnour Varinag Aznavourian) is an ethnical Armenian, BUT also a citizen of France? Would someone truly argue that because Charles Aznavour was a citizen of France in the XX century, that his ancestors were the ethnic Frenchemen all the way back to, say, king Henry IV?
Look! It's all in your own (i.e. Tv Tropian) article! I don't invent things up! So how can you honestly accuse me of that?
But, once again - I'm open to any arguments and solid proof. Please, provide me with examples of all these terrible accusations you were talking about.
Also, I'd like to quote [[(https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13657070230A99420100&page=1#1 another excerpt form Tv Tropes]] very own articles/postings:
Pardon me for doing this, but I'd like to repeat this part:
"Even (or perhaps especially) when we disagree with them, we should strive to be welcoming of people with opinions that differ from our own, provided that they also follow the same guidelines."
It was my belief, that people should be punushed for their (mis)deeds - and not for what someone (even Mod) perceives as a potential infranction, or what when s/he finds some hidden malign meaning in all that.
So, according to the rules of this particular segment of Tv Tropes forums, I ask you to lift my forum ban - or, at least, to provide me with the substantial explanation on why you want to "sanction" me like that.
Thank you.
tbh i have no clue what the heckerie i did but the way you guys talk to others in this thread is kind of?? contradictory from the "come talk to us we're here to help!" thing?? im sorry ive just been terrified of the tvtropes moderators for years for some unknown reason ;-; pls prove me wrong
edit: if this is about my edit on birdo that randomly got reverted, thats really gross, guys. why is removing transphobia (the article's referring to birdo as "him" or "h/she" despite the fact that, as stated, birdo considers herself female) something that i should be in trouble for? i know it's just a fictional character but. i mean. i'm not sure why this is the kind of thing you would want to enforce. it makes you look... not good.
edited 19th Apr '15 5:32:09 PM by Leetroper
Lost in Space
~Quantum Reality: The article in question is Funny.The Messengers. Subpages have to be indexed as well. It's true that the wiki software is inconsistent about which of them is indexed automatically, but that's not an excuse.
~Lyttenburgh: I don't participate in that thread, but in reviewing it in response to the many, many reports about your behavior, I was rather appalled at the way you uncritically present the Russian side. No matter what you may have read about our policies, we are under no obligation to entertain points of view that are fundamentally odious.
Racists, homophobes, jingoists, etc., seldom believe that they are doing anything wrong. I hope that you will, some day, reach outside your nation's ideological borders and start to understand just exactly why Russia is so disliked in the world right now. In the meantime, we will not be a party to your views as they create an environment that is hostile to civil discussion.
~Leetroper: You apparently have an issue with gender ambiguity, as you've been going around the wiki removing references to it with the comment that it is "gross". We expect mature behavior from our editors; yours is the sort of thing one might expect from an insecure teenager. Cut it out. If you think that is "transphobia", you are really deluded.
edited 19th Apr '15 6:07:12 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Lost in Space
~Yung Venuz: Good enough. I'll release your suspension.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Hi,
I was making every attempt to act in good faith by indexing main and subpages on pages that would show up as indexes. If you look at the warnings I got, I did rectify most of them or in some cases had already indexed the pages in question by the time I got one.
I did forget a couple, and I own up to that, so I would like to reiterate that I'll be very careful about it from now on, if you reinstate my editing privileges, and I will be checking in with Septimus Heap about what extra indexing I need to do to make sure that I don't get another warning.
As I said, I'm happy to do more comprehensive and proper indexing where required (and will fix the Funny page on The Messengers ASAP if you reinstate privileges).
edited 19th Apr '15 6:57:36 PM by QuantumReality
Hmm, that's blatantly wrong, because I made literally one edit of this nature. Feel free to prove me otherwise, but it's rather unprofessional to exaggerate. Perhaps it was unintentional but I don't really know.
Just as I feared, your response has been antagonistic and hostile despite the fact that, as I said, this thread was advertised as quite the opposite. To the point, though, the edit I made was extremely minor and corrected something that was quite awkward to read. "Birdo is biologically male but considers himself female" - "himself"? But this sentence states in itself that Birdo is a girl. That's an outright grammar error. You will note that Vivian - another trans female Mario character - does not have this sort of thing on her entry (for the most part), so I'm not sure why Birdo does.
You could attempt to explain to me why I'm wrong here instead of calling me names over it. But I can't really see how attempting to correct grammar errors related to gender is a problem - even if you think it should be otherwise, it's certainly not an edit that needs action taken against it, because it cleans up the page, makes it more clear and doesn't harm the content.
~Leetroper: It's not just that page, on Yuri Genre you did delete a citation of "Transsexual" for no reason at all - it's a well accepted term so far. And as for Characters.Super Mario Bros Assorted Nasties, your edit reason does not suggest that you were doing a grammar fix - more like an arbitrary deletion.
Also, as an aside, you have some issues with Conversation in the Main Page and Example Indentation in Trope Lists. Commentary on trope examples that doesn't add anything to the example does not belong, and neither do lone subbullets or fourth level bullets.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
I feel that I will be able to but as with all people please do accept that their will be mistakes now and then.