Kyon: Big Damn Hero

(Raises hand) I'd have to be dead to not think so.

And technically, that was her first on-panel/screen  ^*

PS: Glad to see you around here, Ack Sed.

edited 18th Sep '10 5:43:34 PM by MarqFJA

On page?

We still need a name for that beam sabre.

Her first kiss shown?

And technically speaking, your proposed interpretation still equates to "No Sell by Haruhi" * Yuki is not a Physical God Reality Warper on her own; she has to "burrow" Haruhi's powers first. She still has de facto Story Breaker Power, though, just on a much lower level than Haruhi's. ; she just relegates the actual execution process to Yuki with Kyon's permission, and Kyon already gave Yuki express permission to disregard anything that she believes is bad in Chapter 2. It's not unreasonable that she inferred from that permission that she also has permission to execute any order/wish/"programme" that she deems to be necessary now (like a life-or-death situation) without waiting for Kyon's actual permission.

Actually my theory isn't about Haruhi's power ignoring the limitation at all (at least directly). While she needs Kyon to approve the uses of Haruhi's power, Yuki by herself still has her native data manipulation skills. In Love at first sight she made delete the ESP from a different kind of esper. While it's never made clear if she used only her own power or the IDSE's it's plausible that she could manipulate supernatural powers (maybe not give or remove, as a sign of being removed from the Entity). So when needed she simply removed the limitation from Koizumi's ESP.

Bottom line, it's just a theory. One I have a bias in favor of simply because it's my theory.

On other point, let's throw another thing here: what do you think Tsuruya is training?

edited 21st Sep '10 1:37:15 PM by Filraen

In Love at first sight she made delete the ESP from a different kind of esper. While it's never made clear if she used only her own power or the IDSE's it's plausible that she could manipulate supernatural powers (maybe not give or remove, as a sign of being removed from the Entity). So when needed she simply removed the limitation from Koizumi's ESP.

And we still have another problem with your theory: As far as we can tell, Yuki was nowhere near Koizumi or Haruhi at the time, nor (AFAIK) was she capable of knowing what they where undergoing without coming within visual/audible range.

what do you think Tsuruya is training?

edited 21st Sep '10 1:42:36 PM by MarqFJA

I don't know what Love at first sight is, but do really mean "delete", or did she just "block" the ESPer's access to his/her power?

A story from the books. I'm not entirely sure what she did, just the effects: the person involved could no longer see her connection with the IDSE.

I'm going for Haruhi's subconscious still being able to override Nagato unintentionally, since it's like Nagato trying to restrain the IDSE.

Tsuruya's training is something mentioned casually in one chapter. She's extracted a promise from the others to let her join them at one point when it comes to the Year Inside, Hour Outside training.

Oh. Well, from what we know of her (or rather, what you guys know, since I don't have access to the light novels), what area is she lacking in?

Her first kiss shown?

edited 21st Sep '10 4:21:56 PM by MarqFJA

What area is Tsuruya lacking in? Could be anything, she very rarely appears. Given her position, I'm guessing some more self-defence skills. She doesn't need to be up to Kyon's level but some would help...

Electrocuting people is all very well and good but it has proven unsuccessful in the past and she can't always be armed.

Shown does work. It doesn't actually require to be able to see it. So long as we get to read its happening and not just be told it happened we've been shown the kiss happening. Think that explanation works, anyway.

Marq: Really? I thought it was implied that Yuki was there hiding the entire time, with the camera, on Haruhi's orders. It's why Haruhi freaks for a moment when Koizumi suggests calling Yuki. She vanishes, just to appear out of nowhere and take the picture of Kanae kissing Kyon. I think she was close enough to do data manipulation on Koizumi.

Still, I don't think that's what happened. I agree with the No-Sell theory.

Also, I think "shown" works here, as well. I think the term "shown" in this context simply means "what the audience has been told", regardless of how it was told to them.

The kiss happened well after the spiderbot was taken out; Haruhi could not have had the foresight to know that Kanae was going to kiss Kyon once she woke up from her faint. Also, she did not freak out; she just got angry at him for not joining the fight, obviously forgetting in the heat of the moment that his ESPer powers were supposed to be restricted Closed Space... Not that her subconscious didn't No-Sell that to hell, anyway .

And since when did Yuki need a camera to video-record anything? She's a Sufficiently Advanced Alien; she don't need no camera!

edited 23rd Sep '10 1:06:41 PM by MarqFJA

No, but Haruhi didn't know that Kyon was going to be attacked. Look at what Kanae says in Chapter 30, after Haruhi ordered Kyon and Kanae to go off to that place alone, together. Kanae just says that they're not actually out there to look for something, and then asks Kyon to be her first kiss. Also notice that, in Chapter 30, right after Kyon and Kanae leave, Yuki has vanished. Haruhi ordered them alone, knowing(and intending) that Kanae would try to kiss Kyon. She then ordered Yuki to follow them and take pictures. And no, she doesn't need a camera, but she obviously had one, if she was showing the pictures to Haruhi in Chapter 31. It specifically mentions Kanae watching Yuki's phone, embarrassed, as they walk back to the rest of the group together. The pictures are on her phone. Yes, the kiss happened AFTER the spider-bot, but Kyon was going to kiss her before everything happened.

"Alright," he allowed guiltily, "as terrible a person as I am—-"

"Not half as monstrous as that thing you're trying to kiss."

And I didn't really mean freak out; maybe more like snapped at him. In Chapter 31, when they see Kyon getting attacked, Koizumi's first idea is to call Yuki; Haruhi just shouts 'NO!', rather uncharacteristically. If she hadn't had something set up, calling Yuki would have been the first thing she would have done, for 2 reasons:

1) Yuki's the most powerful one, besides her 2) Yuki needs to be there to activate Haruhi's power. If she called Yuki there, she could have used her own full power against the spiderbot. As it was, she didn't need to, but still.

edited 23rd Sep '10 4:10:56 PM by thedarkfreak

... In light of your perspective, and after rereading the relevant parts, I am beginning to suspect that you might actually be right in suspecting that Haruhi had Yuki help her No-Sell the limitations on Koizumi's ESP during the battle - if only subconsciously. Or did she do it long before the battle?

Ugh, my head hurts from making sense of all this. >_<

You make a good point there, actually. Haruhi herself wondered if Yuki could figure out what she wanted by what things she tried to use her powers for, and it's quite likely she can.

The only thing I can't really see is Yuki disobeying the setup they had, where Kyon has to authorize Haruhi's powers. She may have just ran the program herself to help Kyon, but I don't think so. Mainly because of the prologue, where Yuki asks Kyon for permission to heal him from a deadly injury, and Kyon points out to her that he's alright with that one being used without express permission. Chronologically, that hasn't happened yet, so....

Of course, that's all if you assume that Yuki actually has complete control over Haruhi's powers above non-living telepathy. Considering Closed Space was still occuring even after Yuki was put in charge of her powers, I think that she might still be able to subconsciously use them.

I doubt she would have done it beforehand, as she still sees him as an esper. I think it was done subconsciously when she realized Kyon was in danger, and she couldn't do much to help.

edited 23rd Sep '10 6:42:32 PM by thedarkfreak

Well, I did speculate in the previous page that Yuki might have decided to infer from his expression of trust in her judgement that she can decide on her own whether or not to apply the "programme(s)" when faced with life-or-death situations that must be resolved now, and there's no time to gain express permission.

And that's another thing: It's quite clear from that early exchange between the two that trust is a very important matter to her. Notice how she responds not with "understood" or anything similar, but with "thank you". "Thank you". How many times has she thanked anyone in Canon or in this fanfic? It draws strong parallels with Rei Ayanami in Episode 18, when after she awkwardly thanks Shinji for cleaning her apartment, she realizes that she had never thanked anyone before, not even Gendo.

edited 23rd Sep '10 6:49:41 PM by MarqFJA

That, too, is a fair point. I do see Yuki as rational enough to want to help Kyon if he absolutely needs it, and he is incapable of authorizing it.

Gah, ninja'd. Yeah, I'm getting that efficiency in everything is a important matter for her.

Random thought: I really want to see how Durandall will make use of Barely-There Swimwear. Kyon's reaction should be... interesting, to put it mildly.

edited 23rd Sep '10 6:52:07 PM by MarqFJA

Long life qwerty keyboards!

Note that Yuki stayed with Tsuruya after Haruhi and Koizumi left (thus also after Kanae and Kyon)  ^{Mikuru's POV extract in ch. 31}

Marq FJA: And that's another thing: It's quite clear from that early exchange between the two that trust is a very important matter to her. Notice how she responds not with "understood" or anything similar, but with "thank you"

Random: one of the things that got me most curious at the beginning is why Yuki answered that way that time and simply used "Understood" when Kyon decided to go all John Smith on Haruhi after he learned Yuki was going to be deleted.  ^**

edited 23rd Sep '10 7:25:35 PM by Filraen

^ ... I was confused about the whole "Yuki went after Kyon and Kanae before Haruhi and Koizumi" deal; guess my subconscious was trying to remind me of that passage.

Hey, I think I know what Yuki's choice for a Barely-There Swimwear would be: maebari strips, a Shout-Out to Kanokon's resident Kuudere's own choice of swimwear in that anime's Beach Episode.

Ah, thanks for pointing that out. I could have sworn she disappeared in Chapter 30. Aw, well. I still think that Haruhi is responsible in some way or another of her going there, but it might have been out of subconscious agitation rather than an order.

Hmm, but that doesn't explain why Yuki didn't reveal herself until after the battle... though she was amused at Mikuru's kiss with Kyon. Maybe she wanted to see another one...? They have the tape of it because of Yuki.

As you pointed out, though, after the battle, there was no way to be sure Kanae would kiss Kyon... hmm...

off-topic: Holy crap, the Haruhi S2 dub's been released. Gotta pick that up sometime. If only I had money >.<

edited 23rd Sep '10 10:43:32 PM by thedarkfreak

Actually that bothers me too. I don't see any Watsonian reason for Yuki to go to the battle site at that time: if she had realized Kyon was in trouble she could have gone whit Haruhi; if she hadn't, she wouldn't have gone there in the first place.

As for Doylist reasons there are several: we can see Haruhi fighting and "get some of the action", it lets the story focus in Koizumi so he can show his ESP outside Closed Space while appearing conveniently just in time to reconstruct the beach using Haruhi's power.

edited 24th Sep '10 6:32:21 AM by Filraen

New chapter.

I've gone even more overboard on my review of this one than normal. Yet I still got the first review on FF.net. Strange.

Bizarreness aside, this appears to be the longest chapter so far. I don't think there have been any others over 11,000 words.

edited 24th Sep '10 2:08:35 PM by RainyDaze

Definitely the longest one so far.

My thoughts:

1. Yuki's becoming fucking hilarious lately. Even Kanae and Mikuru get their jabs in, too. I love it!

2. Kyon's finally been told about the girls' plan. At least, partially.

3. Well, no more awkward moments for Koizumi anymore.

Silencian's review arrived first. Mine? I take my time, usually I think on something else to say after sending the review.

<tries to control snickering> "Suzumiya-sempai", huh? Didn't see that one coming at all. Me like! I really look forward to see how this one develops.

On another note, Power of Friendship and Nakamahood FTW!

Hey, do we have a trope for what Durandall described in the footnotes about the story "growing beyond his initial plans"?

edited 24th Sep '10 2:58:08 PM by MarqFJA

Not sure about whether there's a trope for that.

For some reason I keep trying to find excuses for Kanae and Haruhi to kiss. Or Kyon and Koizumi.

Also, I WAS right when it came to what Tsuruya would want training in. As you could tell if you saw my review, I found that rather... amusing.

I love this so far. I really liked the poem at the beginning, too. It's perfect for Yuki, especially in this chapter. Actually, any of the conflicts with her. Even the whole "remake the world" thing from Disappearance.

Suzumiya-sempai has me going, too. Especially the way she uses it after Mikuru says her bit in that scene. Can't wait for the next one :D

Someone should mention that Durandall accidentally marked this chapter as "Thwarted Lull Chapter 6(VI)" instead of Chapter 4(IV).

edited 24th Sep '10 3:11:44 PM by thedarkfreak