Tom and Jerry

I'd have to say Mouse In Manhattan is my favorite Tom & Jerry short.

The early shorts had some beautiful animation and backgrounds, especially The Night Before Christmas, which is loaded with Scenery Porn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMxEXeeO8To&feature=related

edited 18th Oct '10 11:36:43 AM by Prinzenick

The Chuck Jones cartoons, while he got what was needed (make Tom the aggressor, not Jerry) had very SUCKY animation.

^ I mainly didn't like them because somewhat unlike the earlier ones, Jerry could pretty much do anything to Tom and not have any karma for it - in a lot of the earlier ones if Jerry crossed a line he'd get some kind of retribution for it, even if he still ended up winning in the end.

The only exception I remember from Jones' cartoons is "Year Of The Mouse," which is up there with my favorite Tom and Jerry cartoons. My definite favorite is "Springtime For Thomas," for being hilarious and having a cool spin on how Tom and Jerry interact with one another.

I also like "Solid Serenade." But the fridge logic from some other cartoons with the same plot (but just roles switched) kind of sticks with me.

Tom is much more of a jerk than most people likes to recognize. While Jerry is indeed overall worse, Tom is hardly a saint either. This is more evident when he's dealing with any small animal aside from Jerry and Sniffles, where he almost invariably comes off as a petty and cruel bully.

edited 18th Oct '10 4:09:45 PM by OverMaster?!

I'd disagree. I'd say overall Tom is worse, but that Jerry tends to go overboard a lot. The cartoons in general had a kind of unspoken rule that if either of them crossed the line then karma would force them back over it. Hard. Nearly all of Tom's rare victories are like that, and a lot of the Jerry-wins-but-still-gets-in-trouble are too.

It goes back to the first episode: it's real simple with Jerry trying to steal food and Tom trying to stop him, but you'll notice Jerry is thoroughly outmatched and doesn't start winning until after Tom steals food himself and blames it on Jerry - the story punishes both of them for stealing, and Tom gets extra for framing Jerry.

edited 18th Oct '10 4:48:59 PM by KnownUnknown

^ You realize you're analysing a cat-and-mouse cartoon, right?

Someone decided to make the plot go that way, didn't they?

^ I mainly didn't like them because somewhat unlike the earlier ones, Jerry could pretty much do anything to Tom and not have any karma for it - in a lot of the earlier ones if Jerry crossed a line he'd get some kind of retribution for it, even if he still ended up winning in the end.

Wow... I don't think I ever consciously noticed that, but it certainly would explain why I always found the older ones more entertaining. Something about neither one being totally infallible makes them both relatable, I think. Definitely loved seeing Jerry get what was coming to him, haha.

My favorite of all time is quite possibly Solid Serenade. "Is You Is Or Is You Ain't My Baby" is the song of my childhood!

edited 18th Oct '10 6:14:56 PM by piccorotto

I've been watching through every episode to see how many times Jerry actually started each fight. So far it's been very few times (although in episodes that just open with Tom chasing Jerry it's impossible to tell who really started it), but I'm only up to episode 30 so there's lots to go. I was driven towards doing this after having to clean up all the Jerry-bashing natter on their trope page so often. >.<

edited 21st Oct '10 3:14:19 AM by Surenity

He never starts the fights (I can only think of one example where he does) , but he does tend do lots of Disproportionate Retribution and screw with Tom when Tom can't do anything about it.

Eh, that's not entirely true. If you look at the fourth episode "Fraidy Cat" for example, Jerry starts scaring Tom for laughs while he's listening to a spooky radio program without being provoked, and "Baby Puss", where Jerry starts things off by making fun of Tom who is being forced by a little girl into being her pretend baby. Still, it doesn't happen nearly as often as some people like to believe.

I put a WMG page of this show.

For example: Spike knows Jerry is responsible for hurting him (and Tyke). He pretends not to know in order to torment Tom.

What do you think?

No, Spike is just that thick headed. Technically, unless the owners aren't around, he doesn't NEED an excuse to beat up Tom if he wants to; Tom can't retaliate, after all. Yet Spike mostly minds his own business until crap is brought to his doghouse doorstep.

Granted, once he starts going, he goes overboard with the punishment.

Spike is pretty neutral in some cartoons as well. There are some where he also frightens Jerry, but Tom gets it in the end mostly because Jerry leads him into the danger while avoiding it himself.

There was an episode where spike chased jerry, but most times he helped jerry.

You know, in the end of those episodes, Jerry and Spike are not looking at each other in the eye. That makes it suspicious for my theory.

There seemed to be a large amount of times Jerry exploited or teamed up with a larger animal, that kinda destroyed his 'underdog' image since it was obvious Tom didn't stand a chance against such a character. I think the only exception may have been when both him and Spike were made to chase Jerry when the owners wanted to choose between them, where Tom was oddly more evenly matched against him for once.

Jerry seemed a bit more grey moraled than usual heroes at the time, but indeed, when this custom wasn't used, he was a lot more fallible than say, the Looney Tunes protagonists, who were hard to sympathise with since they ran rings around the Harmless Villains while rarely getting a true sense of danger or vulnerability like Jerry did. My guess is Jones screwed it up a little because he was so used to the "winners vs losers" custom, though there were a fair few times he still got it right, even if his shorts were still rather bizarre in comparison (his style was becoming rather abstract by that point, ironically Tom And Jerry Tales actually looks like what it may have played as if he got hold of them in his earlier 40s/50s style).

edited 9th Jan '12 3:39:08 AM by Psi001

Jones' Tom and Jerry is the first thing that made me realize that Jones was kind of unaccustomed to writing comedic cartoons outside of the "dim-witted aggressor chasing savvy trickster" set, which may explain some of the changes he made to Looney Tunes characters as well.

His Tom and Jerry cartoons are often extremely "Wile E. and Roadrunner"-esque, which sounds the same as always on paper but gave them a very different tone in practice. Not that that's always a bad thing.

That said, when his Jerry was a jerk, he was really a jerk, and Jones' Jerry avoided karma a bit more often than earlier cartoons.

On the other hand, he didn't always avoid karma in Jones' cartoons. Which is one of the reasons Year Of The Mouse is one of my favorites. Sweet revenge.

It's just a theory, ok?

By the way, can I put it as an Alternate Character Interpretation?

Going through a backlog after not having watched it for a few years. Gotta say, I love Scott Bradley's music and all its Mickey Mousing. Shame I keep forgetting his name.

Can't believe these shorts are over 70 years old.

Cat Concerto FTW.

Haven't got to it yet, but listening to the music from Cat Concerto during Video Games Awesome! is basically why I started my Archive Binge.

@Known Unknown: It's odd though, you think he still would have trod more carefully, given how much he hated the Screwy Squirrel format. As much as he usually made the villains the more rootable characters, he almost always made clear they brought it on themselves.

edited 11th Aug '12 6:55:04 PM by Psi001