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Name discussion: Gainax Ending
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Name discussion: Gainax Ending get usage counts

 1 Dragon Quest Z, Fri, 3rd Sep '10 9:14:04 AM from Somewhere in California
The Other Troper
This isn't quite calling for a rename of Gainax Ending, but I at least want to discuss it. My main problem with it is that not that many Gainax shows are actually an example. It seems people just associated the whole studio with what happened with Evangelion.
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
 2 Deboss, Fri, 3rd Sep '10 9:42:27 AM from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
WTF Ending, What The Hell Ending both come to mind.
 3 rallyfan 9000, Fri, 3rd Sep '10 9:44:11 AM from overwatch position
Elite Soldier
Make both of those redirects ASAP. At a minimum.

Those fit a helluva lot better in my opinion.
I am a proud member of the Western Federation's Anti-Japan Media Task Force. My work is very important.
Dragon Writer
Okay. However, on second thought a What The Hell Ending makes me think of a Shaggy Dog Story (more specifically Shoot the Shaggy Dog).

The other current redirect is Mind Screw Finale.
I think Mind Screw Finale would make for a better name. For some reason or another I always think of Gainax ending not so much as meaning mindscrew, but as though it's an ending that was rushed and nonsensical simply due to time and budget constraints. While it can mean that, the page itself lists that as the cynical interpretation.

edited 3rd Sep '10 10:36:07 AM by Arha

Teutonic Tomboy T-Girl
Seems to me the community has a serious case of Fan Myopia regarding this name. I think it's in serious need of a rename, being completely opaque to anyone who doesn't know who or what a Gainax might be.

The trope description also has my pet-peeve problem of being a trope of fairly wide application, but with a description that implies it's an anime-only thing, chock full of insular references.

A rename might focus peoples' minds on exactly what the trope IS, too. Too often, it seems the applied definition is circular: "You know, an ending like the kind Gainax does!"

edited 3rd Sep '10 10:51:17 AM by suedenim

Fallen Paladin
^Agreed 100%.
You always take us with you when you go
 8 Dragon Quest Z, Fri, 3rd Sep '10 1:09:38 PM from Somewhere in California
The Other Troper
"For some reason or another I always think of Gainax ending not so much as meaning mindscrew, but as though it's an ending that was rushed and nonsensical simply due to time and budget constraints."

Do We Have This One??
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
 9 Louie W, Fri, 3rd Sep '10 1:35:19 PM from Babycowland
Loser
@suedenim, Yeah, I think that a renaming would not be a bad idea. I think the trope description should be edited a bit at least. I am not sure if this is just me, but I had some trouble understanding what the trope was about from the description alone. I think that a clearer rename could help, but obviously I am not sure how everyone else feels about that.
"irhgT nm0w tehre might b ea lotof th1nmgs i dont udarstannd, ubt oim ujst goinjg to keepfollowing this pazth i belieove iN !!!!!1 d
^^ I think that falls under Executive Meddling.

I agree we should rename Gainax Ending, since for the longest time I could not get what it means and it is definitely not a trope restricted to, originated by, perfected by, or popularized by Studio Gainax, which makes it a bit questionable as a Trope Namer. Mind Screw Finale is a good rename IMO.
 
 11 Dragon Quest Z, Fri, 3rd Sep '10 2:19:12 PM from Somewhere in California
The Other Troper
"I think that falls under Executive Meddling."

No, this would not be caused just by that.
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
 12 Comonad, Sat, 4th Sep '10 1:13:41 PM from 19th Jan '38 3:14:07 AM
This bacon is awesome
The redirects are good, but almost 7000 inbound links indicates a pretty healthy name.
Torment liveblog is still hiatusing. You can vandalize my contributor page if you want something to do.
 13 Louie W, Sat, 4th Sep '10 1:29:22 PM from Babycowland
Loser
@Comonad,
The redirects are good, but almost 7000 inbound links indicates a pretty healthy name.
While I am not totally sure about the protocol on renames, I think that Gainax Ending was a poor name from the start and only has so many inbound links because it has a history of being the trope name.
"irhgT nm0w tehre might b ea lotof th1nmgs i dont udarstannd, ubt oim ujst goinjg to keepfollowing this pazth i belieove iN !!!!!1 d
 14 Comonad, Sat, 4th Sep '10 1:47:21 PM from 19th Jan '38 3:14:07 AM
This bacon is awesome
From Everything You Wanted To Know About Changing Titles:

Other reasons to keep your hands off the title:

  • It ain't broke. If the title has good inbound links, it's working.

As far as I can tell, the idea is that if the name has managed to build up that many inbound links, it's serving its purpose.

It doesn't mean the name absolutely can't be renamed, of course, but there needs to be a pretty strong argument to go against those kinds of numbers, probably the kind that can be backed up with solid evidence. The points raised so far seem valid, but not strong enough. Is there anything to show that the name is going against its purpose? Misuse, examples being overly restricted to Gainax works, that kind of thing?
Torment liveblog is still hiatusing. You can vandalize my contributor page if you want something to do.
 15 Some Sort Of Troper, Sat, 4th Sep '10 2:05:08 PM Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, she is imaginary
I think we may have had an attempt at that trope described by DQZ on the cut list at some point.

edited 4th Sep '10 3:02:49 PM by SomeSortOfTroper

Don't just tell us the facts; tell us the memes, tell us the archetypes, tell us the catchy ideas and symbolic roles that get planted in pe
 16 Louie W, Sat, 4th Sep '10 2:25:52 PM from Babycowland
Loser
@Comonad, Okay, then that was a mistake on my part. I suppose that if it is in use then it does not really need to be renamed. I would at least like to see the description cleaned up a bit if only because I do not really understand the trope that well. That might just be me though.
"irhgT nm0w tehre might b ea lotof th1nmgs i dont udarstannd, ubt oim ujst goinjg to keepfollowing this pazth i belieove iN !!!!!1 d
Teutonic Tomboy T-Girl
I'm not sure the "inbound links" argument is the be-all, end-all for showing that the trope name "works." It may just "work" for one insular segment of the population.

If a trope name makes perfect sense to anime fans, but no one else, and is not a legitimately anime-only trope, "Anime fans love it" isn't a great argument for keeping the name.

As far as I can tell, Grandfather Clause is the only decent argument for keeping the name.

At the very least, it needs a better description, one that's less anime-specific and has a clearer and less circular definition.

edited 4th Sep '10 2:31:40 PM by suedenim

 18 Dragon Quest Z, Sat, 4th Sep '10 2:34:09 PM from Somewhere in California
The Other Troper
But keep the picture. I know it's not the right forum section, but that at least fits the trope very well.
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
 19 Meta Four, Sat, 4th Sep '10 2:42:33 PM from riding the wave
AXTUCE MUN AXTE INCAL
"For some reason or another I always think of Gainax ending not so much as meaning mindscrew, but as though it's an ending that was rushed and nonsensical simply due to time and budget constraints."

Do We Have This One?
Cosmic Deadline is close, as it's about endings that feel rushed and half-assed due to Real Life time constraints.
 20 Dragon Quest Z, Sat, 4th Sep '10 2:54:06 PM from Somewhere in California
The Other Troper
That's another bad name. That implies there is some cosmic or supernatural cause for the heroes to hurry up.
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
As far as I can tell, Grandfather Clause is the only decent argument for keeping the name.

Not the only one. Lack of misuse is another. Many inbound links is one more.

Really, lets remember why we rename stuff in the first place. To get less confusion right? To have a name people remember right? If so, why rename a Trope that is both well known (here and elsewhere) and there is no misuses? What are we accomplishing here? Because maybe, someone might confuse it? Because the name is not "intuitive"? Look at the Cue Cullen / And The Fandom Rejoice, for example. The previous name was not intuitive, but (apparently), there were no many misuses. The new name, appear to be clearer but only caused more misuses. It was a shot in our own foot. And about not being 'intuitive'? What is the problem? If people are not getting wrong, but are getting it (proven be the many inbound links), shouldn't it be OK? It is not like every name of every concept is easy to understand if you don't read the definition, anyway.

Well the idea is that this site is a reference for tropes and we are cataloging them—a title that is clear and whose meaning is easily inferred helps for people who want to understand some of the nuances behind a trope but know what the basic idea of the trope is. If a name is intuitive, someone who wishes to learn something about the trope will know what to enter in the search box and get right to what he's looking for. People who are seeking to learn something or are looking for a piece of information are a reference's target audience, correct? Then where possible we should work toward that goal. I mean yeah it's nice when tropers put wicks to Gainax Ending on pages but let's think about the readers who are interested in learning something—an intuitive title would let them find what they are looking for by entering it into the search box without them having to click around in various work pages because the title has an obscure Trope Namer. Sure people click around all the time for fun and this is a fun wiki but let's let it at least be less daunting for someone who honestly wants to know what other kinds of works end with a bizarre mind screw to find what they are looking for if they don't know what Studio Gainax is (or if they know what Studio Gainax is but do not associate a specific kind of ending to it, etc.).

edited 4th Sep '10 5:56:36 PM by Dookie2

 
 23 Louie W, Sat, 4th Sep '10 6:10:30 PM from Babycowland
Loser
Yeah, in my opinion I think it is much easier for people who are not necessarily experienced with TV Tropes (or the manga/anime fandom) to understand Mind Screw Finale or what have you rather than Gainax Ending. However, I do think that having a good number of links already is a legitimate argument against a rename given the renaming guidelines.

edited 4th Sep '10 6:10:44 PM by LouieW

"irhgT nm0w tehre might b ea lotof th1nmgs i dont udarstannd, ubt oim ujst goinjg to keepfollowing this pazth i belieove iN !!!!!1 d
^^ But then, if there is loads of outside links, doesn't it mean it is fulfilling this purpose?

 25 Comonad, Sat, 4th Sep '10 6:50:10 PM from 19th Jan '38 3:14:07 AM
This bacon is awesome
Inbound referral count is not the be-all end-all, but it's solid evidence, and there needs to be a particularly strong argument to go against that evidence. Such an argument would almost certainly need to be backed up with evidence of its own.

Does that evidence exist? If the name has qualities so bad that they outweigh such a huge inbound link count, there must be something solid to point to those qualities. If you think people tend not to understand the trope, show us proof that that's the case. The burden of proof is heavy on the renamers right now.

But of course there's no reason not to rewrite the description if there's a problem with it.
Torment liveblog is still hiatusing. You can vandalize my contributor page if you want something to do.
Total posts: 109
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