The Barbie (2023 film) cleanup thread

Sounds good to me.

I'd disagree that the film doesn't imply the Kens are homeless. Why would they take the Barbies' houses if they already had homes? Why would Ken say he wanted a home with Barbie?

It doesn't flat out say it, but the implication is there.

Edited by PhiSat on Aug 25th 2023 at 12:05:07 PM

Because the Barbie's houses are bigger and probably have more content/aesthetically pleasing designs? My guess is the Ken's homes are bland as shit.

Edited by AudioSpeaks2 on Aug 26th 2023 at 11:19:39 PM

Yeah, like we said, the film doesn't imply the Kens are homeless, Barbie just admits that she doesn't know where they live. They take the houses because the Barbie's houses are obviously much better.

Also Ken probably wanted a home with Barbie simply because he wanted to live his life with her. Many people who want to move in with their girlfriend (or in this case, obsessive crush) already have homes, they just would rather live with their loved ones.

Location and existing infrastructure might also be factors - why build new houses from scratch when there's already plenty of ready-made houses in prime location, complete with all kinds of snazzy amenities and roads connecting them? Slap on a new coat of paint, a few changes in decoration, and call it a day.

Edited by Paradoxic on Aug 27th 2023 at 2:02:49 AM

Anywho, yeah, the film doesn't say that the Kens DON'T have houses. I think the Esoteric Happy Ending should be deleted on the grounds that the film doesn't say anything about Kens not having houses and the film ends with the Kens are going to advance in society the normal way via working their way up.

Or rather on the grounds that the ending is supposed to be a Bittersweet Ending — disappointing on purpose to make a satirical point. The Kens may not be homeless but they still have a raw deal, but that's made explicit by the comparison to real world misogyny.

I found this on the ymmv page:

• Unintentionally Unsympathetic: Sasha is introduced as an extremely cruel Alpha Bitch who gets a Kick the Dog as her establishing character moment, but she never has to actually answer for this cruelty, nor for how awful she's implied to be at school - and the movie seems to forget this behaviour or treat it as harmless because of an implied Freudian Excuse. She also makes fun of her father for trying to learn Spanish as "cultural appropriation", even though learning another language for your partner isn't appropriative.

I mean doesn't the film have a specific scene where she learns the errors of her ways. Also I don't think the movie wants you to find her sympathetic for calling the lead a fascist

Edited by Bullman on Aug 30th 2023 at 7:50:25 AM

The last sentence isn't accurate in the least - it's light-hearted teasing/banter, not a sincere accusation of cultural appropriation.

I saw that the entry with Americans Hate Tingle on YMMV was commented out, but I added a bit more context if you would like to consider commenting it back in.

I agree that Unintentionally Unsympathetic isn't the right trope. Sasha is a foil to her mom, and she is rightfully portrayed as a mean Emo Teen. With the way Barbie reacts to her statement, it's blatantly clear that we're not supposed to sympathize with her at this moment. Her Freudian Excuse isn't really used as a Hand Wave to forgive her behavior, and the movie doesn't forget this, either. Sasha redeems her cruelty and aloof Alpha Bitch behavior by coming to terms with the Barbies, helping them quash the Ken-bellion, and learning that things aren't as black-and-white as she initially thought. The splash of pink she wears at the very end further indicates her changing worldview.

If anything, Sasha's speech and initial portrayal is a Take That, Audience! moment against people who think the same way towards Barbie and towards real-life women with similar "vibes" as well. The movie is just portraying another side of how women are sometimes viewed and treated, this time by other women.

Regarding the joke at the end at her dad, I think that was just affectionate ribbing. YMMV on whether one finds that humor funny or not, but the father wasn't hurt by it and she was just teasing her dorky dad in a way that's normal for teenage girls.

If anything, Sasha's rant is Strawman Has a Point. Barbie making girls feel bad about body image has been such a recurring thing that Mattel released curvier Barbies.

Okay I cut it with a link here.

An entry for They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot that feels a lot like complaining with a couple of errors. For one, Barbie and Gloria meet in the real world and go to Barbieland afterwards. For another, the sharp "No!" in the middle makes me feel this person is more about complaining. Cut?:

• Gloria is revealed to be the original owner of Weird Barbie and they met in Barbieland. Does Gloria an express emotional reaction to seeing her favorite childhood Barbie again? Does Weird Barbie express resentment towards Gloria due to being the reason for the former being an outcast in Barbieland? No! The movie then immediately shifts the focus back to Stereotypical Barbie after one line of dialogue of Gloria acknowledging Weird Barbie as her old doll.

EDIT: Just read the whole thing and realized this was about Weird Barbie and not Stereotypical Barbie. Whoops! Still feels like complaining to me (though they did already hint that Weird Barbie was made by Gloria earlier)

Edited by Jobyrdthegamerbyrd on Sep 13th 2023 at 6:21:24 AM

I removed that. I don't remember them saying she was Gloria's but rather that she owned a weird Barbie without confirming it. I guess I was misremembering. I also don't see how that fit the trope definition of interesting plot the work set up but failed to explore properly because it never set up Weird Barbie being angry at being an outcast so it felt more like "this plot would have been neet". If you guys think it counts I will add it back though. I should have brought it up here first.

Edited by Bullman on Sep 13th 2023 at 10:03:11 AM

Yeah. That's what it felt like to me.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.Barbie2023&page=17#edit39495884

So how do we feel about these being re-added? I feel that it still ignores how things aren’t immediately gonna get better and the Narrator saying that they’ll get their rights eventually.

As for Rooting, I do find many people saying the Ken’s did nothing wrong but I feel this fits more into Draco in Leather Pants. As Gloria herself points out, "He took [her] house. He brainwashed [her] friends. He wants to control the government.". I know the point of the film is that both types of gender fixation are equally messed up but at the same time I don’t want the page to feel as though it ignores that point.

Yes. Delete the examples. We've been saying again and again how the ending is not bad and people are reading way too much into those. And if people are trying to say the Kens did nothing wrong despite it being explicitly stated in the film that what they're doing is wrong, it is definitely Draco in Leather Pants and needs to be deleted.

Edited by FirstAidRules on Jan 25th 2024 at 7:25:42 AM

Remove them again for the reasons you just said.

Edited by Bullman on Jan 25th 2024 at 9:31:38 AM

Is it possible to get the YMMV page locked? It seems to me there's going to be edit wars over the ending and the Kens.

I don't think the Esoteric Happy Ending point is bad because "they'll get their rights eventually." The point is that the Kens will struggle the same way women have to obtain their rights in the real world — it's not reading too into it, the metaphor is blatant.

It is bittersweet, but it is purposefully bittersweet — but I think there's some debate over just how much that bittersweet aspect should be emphasized.

Edited by mightymewtron on Jan 25th 2024 at 11:35:51 AM

And if it's purposely bittersweet, wouldn't it not be that trope either way since it's acknowledged in the film itself?

Yeah. If it's acknowledged in the film itself, it really shouldn't be included.

Why was the Rooting for the Empire example removed for Ken? You may not agree, but there are a lot of people out there who found his character to be more compelling than Barbie and were rooting for him to win. If you have a problem with how it's worded, then reword it instead of removing it entirely.

Edited by ReddishGuy1 on Jan 25th 2024 at 9:42:44 AM