To-do list:
Consensus was to create two new namespaces for pages currently located in Useful Notes, a Platform/ namespace for media platforms (game consoles, operating systems, etc., like Nintendo Game Cube, Microsoft Windows, and Steam) and a MediaNotes/ namespace for pages containing background information on media, like How Video Game Specs Work or ANSI Standard Broadcast TV Schedule. Thus, the following will need to be done:- Go through the Useful Notes index and see which pages should be moved from UsefulNotes/ to either Platform/ or MediaNotes/.
Original post:
Useful Notes, from what I understand, is meant to be specifically about informing readers about complicated subjects that show up a lot in the media, to help them understand how to properly portray it. These subjects range from historical events to real-life locations and cultures. There's some subjectivity about what's "useful" here, but it's a pretty specific namespace otherwise.However, we also have a class of pages that really don't fit this mold. However, they're in UN because there's no better namespace for them. These are the "media history" pages, such as the pages on various game consoles. They're not work pages because these things aren't tropeworthy, they're not creator pages because they're individual works, tools, or concepts; and they're not trivia because why would they be? They're in Useful Notes because they're informative pages on things related to media, but you'd be hard pressed to say that reading UsefulNotes.Nintendo Game Cube would help you write a book. These pages serve a function that's definitely relevant to the website, but they just don't fit the intended use of Useful Notes.
The reason I'm bringing this up now is because the TRS thread for RetroGaming wants to make it UsefulNotes, which
... I did vote for because at the moment there ain't no rule saying it doesn't go there, but I did make it clear that my true stance is a lot different. I didn't want to derail the discussion though, because Retro Gaming would just be another drop in the ocean, not the problem in and of itself.
This reminds me of the state of the Franchise/ namespace before Derivative Works/ was created pretty recently. The namespace was being used for things it shouldn't be used for simply because we lacked anything more suitable. So one possible solution would just be to create a new namespace for these pages, such as Media History/ or something, to preserve them as their own category.
The other solution is to just expand the definition of "Useful Notes" to include pages like these. I'm not sure I agree with this because in my opinion this would just validate some of the serious decay issues the namespace has (seriously, there are a lot of superfluous pages), but it would also be the easiest thing to do and would allow us to maintain the current status quo.
And of course, you may disagree with me that there's even a problem here at all. I'm just calling it as I see it based on my understanding of the namespace guidelines, especially as UN misuse and bloat has been called out elsewhere in the past.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Feb 23rd 2024 at 1:25:29 PM
the Retromancer
I suppose Platform/ would be similar to Magazine/ in a way.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
I should note that I envisioned a Background/Meta namespace as effectively filling the same role as MediaNotes/ with a better name. You'll note that in my post suggesting it I note that platforms could be placed there but could also have other solutions apply to them.
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
My mistake, but I'm not going to bother revising or restarting the crowner because so far only Platform/ has had consensus anyway, so I get the impression that consensus is against such a namespace regardless of what it's called, but that people are fine with moving pages for platforms to a new namespace.
the Retromancer
If "Meta / Background / MediaNotes" and "Keep the pages" don't get consensus, I assume it implies that pages like How Video Game Specs Work and ANSI Standard Broadcast TV Schedule would get cut.
I suppose we'll later need to make a list and double-confirm if these should be cut.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
I already said that anything that doesn't get moved will be staying in Useful Notes, which is the default anyway. Cutting pages would require more discussion.
the Retromancer
Okay. "Keep the pages discussed in this thread in the Useful Notes category/namespace" is downvoted, so I've got confused.
Edited by Amonimus on Mar 8th 2023 at 11:19:16 PM
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Well, that's sort of "keep and expand", but keeping them and doing nothing is the status quo.
Edit: or at least it used to be an expansion option...
Edited by WarJay77 on Mar 8th 2023 at 3:25:13 PM
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Friends forevermore
Why is there even an option for status quo? Just for the sake of having one?
I had a dog-themed avatar before it was cool.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Well, originally it was an expand option. No idea why that part was cut.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
Officially including them within the scope of Useful Notes was actually the intent instead of merely maintaining the status quo, so I tweaked the crowner option to make it explicit. The removal of the explicit statement was an oversight when the crowner wording was originally being written (blame Serial Tweaking).
Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 9th 2023 at 11:15:47 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Officially intimidated
Posting this comment to make public that I voted in favor of creating a Platform namespace for media platforms, and also voted in favor of creating a Background or Meta namespace. I didn't upvote or downvote the other options.
135 - 169 - 273 - 191 - 188 - 230 - 300
I upvoted all options besides the default. I think these pages are definitely worth keeping, but moving them out of UN should be a priority. Otherwise indifferent.
the Retromancer
Anything beside Video Game Systems that should be Platform/ ?
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
No longer active.
Going back to my aforementioned reasons for picking a "Media History" namespace, if "Platform" wins out, would stuff like Mass Storage formats go there or would they stay under Useful Notes?
Be kind.
No longer a forum herald
Virtual Reality Index has some additional linked pages that could also be put under Platform/ if we want. Beyond that, I don't see much else that could be added as long as we're limiting the Platform/ namespace to cover hardware systems only.
Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
I'd brought up TV Networks as potential candidates for a Platform namespace earlier, but for many of those we'd have to figure out how to separate their roles as Creators from their hosting content created by others.
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
The fact that TV networks and streaming services often make shows in-house is why I left them off in favor of focusing on platforms that only serve as platforms. I suppose we could have another crowner after this one to see whether they should count, if anyone would rather decide whether to include them in this thread instead of making another thread.
I think something that serves as both a Creator and a platform should default to the former until/unless we get enough information to justify a split. First example, Netflix, the parent company, creates Netflix, the platform, plus their originals.
Partially tangential, but not sure how we'd handle hypothetical pages about crowdfunding.
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
I agree with that approach to the namespaces for networks/streaming services.
I'd like to be wary about a proliferation of these namespaces, though. These are a few steps removed from tropes and they often invite problems (index proliferation, off-topic commentary on the creators etc.)
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
Calling in favor of the creation of both the Platform/ namespace and the media namespace. We just need to decide what to call the latter; the usual seven-day minimum runtime will still apply.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
And the second (and presumably final) crowner is up.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Oda Ngo has is a trope made in the main section yet it has no examples and only defines the term. Shouldnt this be Useful Notes instead?
Discord: Waido X 255#1372 If you cant contact me on TV Tropes do it here.
Question: what will be done if, for whatever reason, none of the name options end up getting consensus?
Crown Description:
Consensus was to create two new namespaces for pages currently located in Useful Notes, a Platform/ namespace for media platforms (game consoles, operating systems, etc., like Nintendo Game Cube, Microsoft Windows, and Steam) and a second namespace for pages containing background information on media, like How Video Game Specs Work or ANSI Standard Broadcast TV Schedule. The name of the namespace for background information on media hasn't been decided yet, so what should its name be?
But one thing I want to pitch in: this has been focusing on video game stuff so far, but should/could we potentially expand this to other areas? Because I think that the "platform" namespace could include not just consoles and OSes but also TV/movie Networks and streaming services currently in the Creator namespace like CBS, NBC, Netflix, and Disney+. (Admittedly, it does get complicated since many of them are creators of new works...)
The fact that TV networks and streaming services sometimes create works themselves was why I didn't add an option for moving them out of the Creator/ namespace. I feel they should be evaluated separately.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 7th 2023 at 12:26:54 PM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.