Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Not the Eye
Abstain on PHEN
A Girl, Just One of Many Kinds
I’ll be fine with PHEN being a wait and see, I had no clue the story was gonna continue. But with that said, I have another candidate in mind I’ll need proposing today, from a very popular game
Keep Fighting. Keep Loving.
Gentle Laborer
@NTG Who said anything about "waiting forever"? Doctor Nowhere has confirmed he's working on making a sequel to the project.
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Apr 19th 2024 at 9:03:48 AM
The Dark Priest himself
Btw, watched anime version of Sand Land , General Zeu is even worse then in the anime
Edited by TadiTadTa on Apr 19th 2024 at 8:08:11 PM
I think Iike Gundam and Dragon Quest too much
Dagded Dujardin
Alright so here's a different kind of candidate o' mine:
What is the work?
Something More (Adventure Time) is a 2020 AU fanfic of Adventure Time where the plot is kicked off by Martin and Finn washing back to Founders Island instead of being lost at sea during the day where Martin attempted to escape his enemies and save Finn from them.
Here, Finn was able to live a normal life with his mother after he made it back to shore and even a strained relationship with his father who got arrested for his apparent attempted escape and endangering Finn's life, but grows a desire to see the outside world due to his boring and dull life, whch is fulfilled when Martin takes him on a ride to try and smuggle out some humans to the outside world which gets him lost across the sea when the guardian attacks their boat and unwittingly sends him to Ooo much later than he came in canon, about 17 years late in fact.
Regardless, Finn's natural kindness and remnant heroic instincts allow him to become the land's greatest hero even gaining a Spirit Advisor in the form of his past life's, Shoko, ghost. Along the way of his journeys, he faces many enemies such as the Ice King, Me-Mow, Scorcher and even Flint, Flame Princess' warmongering brother, and especially Dr. Gross.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
Dr. Cassandra Gross (commonly known as Dr. Gross) is the fic's main antagonist, Founders Island's top scientist and Finn's honorary aunt. She is a human woman who grew to become a human supremacist, viewing non-humans as inferior beings and dreaming of a world where humans took back control of their planet by wiping out the "mutant freaks" that now roamed the post-Mushroom War world.
Meeting Minerva at some point in her youth, Gross befriended her and became her honorary sister, eventually getting to take care of her son and honorary nephew, Finn, when he attended school teaching him how humans were "superior" alongside her other topics, though Finn never took on the ideas himself. Feeling that she wouldn't accomplish much from her position as one more scientist and teacher in Hub Island, the human's original island home, Gross began working on a virus to wipe out half the population of the Island and especially take out the leaders so Minerva can rise in their place and let them both take full control of the Islands; however like in canon the virus was unleashed accidentally and wiped out half the populace along with the leaders and even almost Minerva who survived by turning herself into an AI like in the show, though Gross' goals are achieved regardless gaining major influence once the humans moved to Founders Island.
Once Finn was 17 years old, Gross put in motion a plan to find a good excuse to begin exploring outside the Islands; for this end she manipulated Hiders (humans wishing to escape the island and were imprisoned for it), primarily Martin, by both giving them the keys to escape their imprisonment and telling them that with Finn as a captive they would get past the Island's robot guardian without issue, all a lie of course so that the Guardian strands them all and sends Finn far away. The plan works like a charm as the hiders kidnap Finn and he ends up lost at sea as intended, eventually finding himself in Ooo.
Taking advantage of Minerva's grief, Gross proposed sending help to find Finn wherever he is, while secretly plotting to map out the Land of Ooo to find out just what she'll be dealing with in her greater plans. Though Kara ends up losing communications after her seeker implants are damaged by the Ice King, Gross is unfazed and just uses it as another way to continue her plans, convincing Minerva to let her go personally to Ooo to find Finn and Kara (now called Susan) and bring them back which Min approves of.
Once she arrivees at Ooo, Gross takes her chance to kidnap various inhabitants like a water nymph, Abracadaniel, Flambo and even one of Jake's children, T.V.; then imprisoning them so she can use them as guinea pigs for her augmentation experiments enjoying their suffering. She also hijacks the Candy Kingdom's defenses and threatens to slaughter the populace unless Princess Bubblegum and her citizens don't interfere in her planned genocide of Ooo and in return are spared and allowed to become a subservient puppet kingdom for the humans.
With her threat bringing Ooo to its darkest times yet, Finn sets out to stop her alongside his friends when they confront her in person she employs a mech suit and attempts to kill Finn's friends for getting in her way and later on fights Finn himself, and though she initially tries to get Finn to join her once he refuses and chooses to fight for his new friends over helping her plans she decides to kill him off, even revealing herself as the mastermind behind him getting lost to begin with, only failing when Shoko's ghost takes a chance to stab her in the back with Nothung, killing her.
Regardless of her death, the fallout of it all convinces Finn to go back home to stop his mother from sending any more humans to Ooo, fearing the worst.
Heinous standard
She created a virus to wipe out a portion of the population on Hub Island and its leaders so she and Minerva would rise in the ranks and take control of the remaining humans, and despite the virus being set off when she didn't mean to, she did not feel any remorse from the disaster that ensued and even was impressed by the death toll that exceeded her expectations.
Then, when her plans are set in motion she kidnaps, experiments on and tortures several innocent inhabitants of Ooo. tries to genocide the entirety of Ooo to let the humans retake the planet and only intended to spare the Candy Kingdom to turn them into her servants and pawns. She also tries killing Finn out of spite when he refuses to join her. All the while despectively referring to the inhabitants of Ooo as "mutant freaks" and seeing no issue with killing them for humanity's sake
All other antagonists in the fic (besides the Lich) are either one-shots with not much deeds (Me-Mow, Scorcher, Bandit Princess), redeem themselves or stand down (Ice King and Hunson Abadeer) or in Flint's case (who tried to commit genocide on the Candy Kingdom and later almost murdered Finn for helping establishing peace between the Fire and Candy Kingdoms) were manipulated and influenced to do their worst deeds by an outside party (in this case, the Lich).
So, she definitely sets the standard here given her extensive and detailed crimes and attempted body count. The only competition she has is the Lich but she has enough crimes that any evil standard the Lich brings doesn't diminish her own.
Mitigating factors?
Initially she shows familial love towards Finn and Minerva, seeing them as her nephew and sister figures, respectively, and even tries to get Finn to join her side. However, she throws away her care for Finn and tries to kill him without remorse the instant he doesn't support her goals and since she felt no remorse for Minerva almost dying to her virus, she definitely would do the same to her "sister" if she stood in her way.
And while her desire to see humanity be back as the dominant species could have some sympathy to it due to the whole tragedy of the Mushroom War and humanity's near-extinction at the hands of the vampires, her characterization and own words make it clear that her conquests are motivated more by ego-driven supremacist ideas than any genuine noble intent.
Verdict
An even worse version of the already monstruous canon Gross, she counts as a CM for me
Edited by VengefulBale on Apr 20th 2024 at 9:40:47 AM
"Bingo! If two species hate each other, they will wipe each other out on their own."
Jogo
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Haussman and Dr. Gross
Abstain on PHEN-228 since his story isn't over yet, but unless something weird happens, he'll be an easy keeper when his story ends.
Edited by jlvs200s on Apr 19th 2024 at 7:00:34 PM
"Stand Proud, Sukuna, you are strong" | He/Him
for Dr. Gross. The Lich a candidate?
Dr. Gross.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Dr. Gross
Alright, it's been two weeks since this film came out, so let's get cracking.
What’s the Work?
Monkey Man is a 2024 Indian action movie that serves as the directorial debut for Dev Patel, who also starred and co-wrote it. Patel went through hell and back making this movie (for one thing, it was shot in India right when COVID started breaking out), and it's thanks to Jordan Peele stepping in as a producer that it managed to get released. Also (don't mean to brag), I actually got to see the movie's premiere at SXSW this year.
Patel stars as "Kid", a man whose village was destroyed by a corrupt police force during his childhood, with his mom serving as one of the casualties. Out for blood against the ones who ruined his life, and heavily influenced by the legend of Hanuman, Kid finds he has to tango with India's elite who rule the country from the shadows.
Who is He?
Baba Shakti is an insidious spiritual guru who secretly controls the far right nationalist Sovereign Party.
What has he done?
A beloved celebrity who claims to have rose from nothing, Baba preaches his twisted version of Hinduism on television while spouting patriotic nonsense to get the country's denizens on his side. Baba uses his connections to politicians and police to spread corruption all over India, from attempting to rid the country of those he deems undesirables (including trans people and those who don’t practice Hinduism like Muslims and Christians), to prostitution and drug trafficking at the hands of the madam Queenie.
But his worst act comes from his businesses. Baba personally commands the police to wipe out villages of their people in order to use their land to build factories. The survivors are converted into his devout followers and used as slave labor for his factories, even passing off his terrible working conditions as the complainer just not being a good enough follower.
As the Sovereign Party continue to rise in the upcoming election, Baba uses his platform to encourage beatings of Muslims and other undesirables for the good of the country. We even see a montage of violent riots and hate crimes committed by his followers. Baba himself plans to rule India from the shadows, preferring to use the Sovereign Party's candidate as his own political puppet.
At the very end, after Kid has entered his domain and slaughtered his men, Baba uses a secret shiv in his sandals to stab Kid in the stomach. But Kid gets the upper hand and stabs him repeatedly. Baba uses his final breath to beg for mercy, but Kid stabs the false guru in the forehead, putting an end to his crimes.
Redeeming Qualities?
None. Baba spouts about how he's doing everything for the greater good, to better benefit India. But it's obvious that he's just saying all of that to cover his true intention to gain power. Baba's really just a nasty cultist who doesn't practice his pacifistic preachings, and even Dev Patel himself has said that Baba represents how people can use religion to corrupt, painting him as a fully Not-So-Well-Intentioned Extremist.
Heinousness?
Baba's the Big Bad, responsible for a whole lot of death, violence, corruption, and the ruination of Kid's life through his village massacres.
As for the other villains?
Rana Singh is getting his own EP, he's definitely bad enough.
Queenie is a total bitch, as she's an abusive pimp who mistreats her prostitutes, but I feel she doesn't go as far compared to the likes of Rana and Baba.
And then there's Tiger, who is really just an entertaining Jerkass.
Conclusion
Keeper
"No running in the halls!"
Dagded Dujardin
Baba
The Emperor of Evil!
Having seen the movie, to Baba Shakti. to Dr. Gross as well.
Edited by Powermaster201 on Apr 19th 2024 at 12:42:56 PM
Baba, Gross
for Baba Shakti.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Come on people, pending.
Yes to Gross. Did she even REACT to Minerva almost dying?
Fun movie. Yes to Baba.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Jogo
Baba Shakti
Not the Eye
Dr Gross and Baba
Gentle Laborer
Haussmann and Baba
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Evil Hotel Room
What is the work? Sanctimony is a 2000 crime thriller created by everyone's favorite retired director, Uwe Boll. Totally not a ripoff of certain box-office hits, the film follows two detectives, Jim Renart and Dorothy Smith, and their attempts to investigate mysterious serial killings that have been plaguing the city. With the killer getting more and more brazen with each victim, the duo must stop him before things get even worse.
Who is he?
- Tom Turner (or "Tom Gerrick", according to the credits) is a handsome, emotionless stock trader who moonlights as a vicious murderer, sounds familiar? As the Theme Serial Killer known as the "Monkey Maker", Tom kills his victims in sets of 6 and removes specific facial items in each cycle—eyes (see no evil), ears (hear no evil), tongue (speak no evil)—completing the three cycles would result in the Number of the Beast, again, sounds familiar? By the time the movie begins, Tom has already murdered 13 people, and he's not satisfied with "just" the Monkey Maker killings, oh no, Tom is part of a Snuff Film operation where aspiring actresses are taken to the basement of a nightclub and killed for the pleasure of paying customers, Tom included. Tom is also violently abusive to his own fiancée, Eve, whom he psychologically torments and sexually assaults before eventually discarding her for becoming "old goods".
- Wanting to mess with the investigators, Tom murders a teenaged runaway and calls 911 to insert himself into the Monkey Maker investigation. Getting fixated on Dorothy, Tom fantasizes about murdering her by dismembering a call girl and imagining she's Dorothy. Tom eventually lures Dorothy to a false sense of security and paralyzes her with a gunshot through the spinal cord before making her his next victim—"What's worse, Dorothy? Knowing that you were wrong about trusting me for even a second, or knowing the consequences of it?"—With his Mask of Sanity completely gone by this point, Tom targets Jim's pregnant wife, binding her and placing a noose around her neck that will hang her from the window once Jim opens the door to their apartment. Tom also leads the company that he works for to disgrace by intentionally choosing bad investments, just to be a dick.
- Having been invited to a talk show, The Secrets of Success, Tom, in usual Uwe Boll fashion, takes the opportunity to go on an anti-establishment rant about governments raping and pillaging to help the rich stay rich and glorifying themselves as heroes at the expanse of human lives, and confessing that he enjoys what he does because real happiness can only be achieved with the suffering of others. Tom slashes the throat of the interviewer on live TV—"I love reality television!"—and, with the knowledge that Eve was kind enough to invite him to a party despite everything Tom did to her, he decides to attend the party... with a gun in each hand, massacring tons of people inside (Eve included) before finally dying at the hands of Jim.
Mitigating Factors? The film characterizes him as a Thrill Seeker bored with a life of privilege, his rant is immensely hypocritical for obvious reasons.
Heinous? Uwe Boll's portrayal of Tom comes off as an attempt to create this suave Evil Is Cool figure that kills because it's the only thing that makes sense in a world driven mad by materialism... But what we actually see is a repulsive, cartoonishly evil edgelord whose superficial criticism of society only mask the fact that he's just as bad as the governments that he so despises. Huh... Where have I seen that before?
Conclusion? to Not Patrick Bateman (fun fact, his actor would go on to portray the actual Patrick Bateman in the Film of the Book of The Rules of Attraction)
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Apr 19th 2024 at 2:42:35 PM
Tom
Dagded Dujardin
Timmy Turner... Err, Tom Turner I mean
Jogo
Tom Turner
Not the Eye
pronounced 'Scraggle'
Yes to Tom. No to Room 1408.
Watch for the sign of the Saint — he will be back!
Ultimate Moral Compass
Monkey Maker (pfft)
A Girl, Just One of Many Kinds
Yes to Baba, Gross and…..Tom, god that movie sounds bad lol
Keep Fighting. Keep Loving.
So, I was asleep for the Room 1408 discussion. I will admit, I have not seen any of the works used in the comparisons people were making. For example, I haven't played any Silent Hill game. But, if the room doesn't get approved, that's still fine by me, as it's just another bit of experience for me (and I can't recall doing any proposals since 2019). I will admit, there are other characters I thought about proposing in the past, only to reject the ideas since they had even less dialogue than the room (although they are also much less ambiguous, but one of them also probably isn't heinous enough).
Next time I propose a character (whenever that will be), it will probably be someone who is way less ambiguous. (I hope this doesn't age poorly)
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