Creator Backlash cleanup

Not too long ago, the Creator Backlash trope was merged with Old Shame as per this TRS thread. Unfortunately, Creator Backlash has experienced some misuse since it might be for when a creator backlashes against an entire work. A recent idea for a cleanup was raised on the "Is this an example?" thread.

Given that, I think we should start a cleanup effort. If there are any other cleanup suggestions for this trope, please post here.

MOD NOTICE: Since a lot of examples that now belong under Creator Backlash are still listed under Old Shame (courtesy link to the list of wicks) from before it was redefined to refer to In-Universe shame, this thread has permission to vet examples that are still listed under Old Shame to see whether they fit the expanded Creator Backlash or whether they should be removed.
This is the to-do list that was used for the TRS thread:

• On-page examples were transplanted from Old Shame to Creator Backlash (except for in-universe examples), but further cleanup and/or sorting may be needed (either merging separate bullet points from the same creator/work or in-universe examples that need to be moved back to Old Shame).
• Move out-of-universe/meta examples of Old Shame to Creator Backlash, since the former's current definition is being merged with the latter (i.e., whether the work is popular is no longer relevant for Creator Backlash examples). In-universe examples are staying under Old Shame because it is being retooled into an in-universe trope.
• Cleanup is being tracked using the Old Shame Wick Cleaning sandbox.

Edited by gjjones on Oct 31st 2022 at 11:33:12 AM

Thanks for the help.

Yeah, cleaning up the Old Shame entries while we're at it sounds like a good idea.

So, I think we should start with cleaning out the CreatorBacklash.Live Action Film subpages. I've also made a sandbox page for CreatorBacklash.Live Action Film Multiple Creators.

Edited by gjjones on Nov 3rd 2022 at 2:32:16 PM

I think that this deleted example of Author's Saving Throw from Extra Credits can be salvaged as Creator Backlash:

• Years after their defense of Revenue-Enhancing Devices tarnished their reputation, an episode examining the history of how games monetize took a much dimmer view of lootboxes, directly referencing the earlier episode under a different creative team and saying that it naively assumed this monetization method would be used responsibly and temperantly, before directly admitting it was not.

What do you think?

That could work.

From Trivia.Octopussy And The Living Daylights:

• Creator Backlash: Allegedly, Ian Fleming was so disappointed with "The Property of a Lady" that he refused payment from Soetheby's (it was also excluded from the original Octopussy collection, only being inserted decades after Fleming died).

This example appears to be just speculation.

I feel it's speculative too, partly because of the "allegedly".

Yes, the "allegedly" makes the entry sound like water-cooler gossip rather that trivia. I'd remove it.

From Trivia.Weegee Invasion:

• Old Shame: Stash Club evidently feels this towards the old Weegee Invasion, as all of its songs were scrapped following its update to YTP Invasion. A teased song for the mod, "Promotion", also features a sound clip of another famous mod creator, Banbuds, saying that Weegee Invasion wasn't very good, suggesting that Stash Club agrees with this notion.

This sounds like pure speculation

Yeah, that sounds speculative to me. Plus, it's now misuse since Old Shame applies to an in-universe character.

Seconded.

From Trivia.Son Of The Mask:

• Creator Backlash:
  • Averted with Jamie Kennedy, who was satisfied with the film overall, instead being enraged at the amount of harsh criticism that both he and the film received; so much so that he made a documentary two years later, titled Heckler, where he slams the nature of film critics overall. Kennedy did acknowledge though that the film probably would have been better had he been allowed to improvise lines or jokes the way Jim Carrey was allowed to.
  • A straightforward, albeit mild case with credited screenwriter Lance Khazei, who while not outright disowning the movie, has bemoaned the fact that he initially submitted the script as a stand-alone script called Baby Formula which was then re-worked into a Mask sequel, and was not involved in that process.
  • The winner of Nintendo Power’s The Mask II contest, Nathan Ryan Runk, mostly averts this since he was not in the movie. But after seeing the movie, he said, "I would have likely been okay with doing a walk-on in Son of the Mask because, at the time, I didn’t know how bad it was going to be. Knowing what I do now and even if that were an option, I’m glad I went with the money.”
  • Kal Penn has nothing nice to say about this film.

I think the last one can be saved, the rest..."snip, snip"

Edited by SoyValdo7 on Jan 4th 2023 at 7:52:27 AM

I agree. Even if Trivia tropes can't qualify for Playing with a Trope, half of those still come off as non-notable aversions to me. I also don't think Lance's response is negative enough to qualify. I'm unsure about the last one, though I feel it might count if he also hates his performance.

From Trivia.Infinity Train Court Of Cyclamen

• Old Shame: The story is seen as this to the Blossomverse as a whole because of its brutal darkness, even by the verse's standards, and constant continuity issues. Crossoverpairinglover has gone so far as to declare it a Disowned Adaptation, and when elements from it are seen in other works, the reactions from cautious surprise (Voyage of Wisteria) to great disapproval (Seeker of Crocus).

Old Shame is for In-Universe examples only, but I think it could work as Creator Backlash.

Thoughts?

I agree that it works as Creator Backlash because of how Old Shame changed due to TRS and the fact the creator seems to hate the work.

Found this on Kenny vs. Spenny (improperly put as YMMV rather than Trivia)

• Creator Backlash: Spenny has said that he hates Kenny's fans, and tells any of them that sees him in public to fuck off.

Ignoring how I can't find any source for this being the case, I don't think this is accurate to the trope either way. Creator Backlash is for disliking the work, not for hating a portion of the fandom.

I agree, I say cut it.

This was reposted to the Yashahime trivia page.

Creator Backlash:

• Rumiko Takahashi was asked in a 2021 interview what her opinion on pairing Sesshomaru and Rin was, to which she replied, "In my opinion,Sesshomaru is Rin's parental figure/guardian".
• Ken Narita, Sesshomaru's Japanese voice actor, has twice expressed his opinion that he doesn't view Rin as a love interest to Sesshomaru, but likewise sees him more like her parental figure/guardian. He was very confused at the reveal that Sesshomaru had kids, feeling it doesn't fit his character, and states that he overall sees Yashahime Sesshomaru as an "alternative universe" version of the original character. On the other hand, he feels he would be up to the challenge in portraying him as a father.

Note that the link provided in the first entry is to a 30 minute+ interview that is entirely in Japanese with no English subtitles.

But it is contradicted by this post here on a separate page. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/remarks.php?trope=Main.WifeHusbandry&id=139631#comment-151213

The one who posted it has a very clear agenda and history of this, so I'm trying to get input from other members.

Note that hogosha is the word that is being translated in the entry where Rumiko says "parental figure/guardian".

Edited by Bornstellar on Mar 19th 2023 at 5:11:14 AM

Creator Backlash is for when a creator disowns their work, NOT for when a creator acknowledges some flaws in their work. I say cut it.

It's not for outright disowning one's own work. Per the description on the main trope page, they just have to dislike it in retrospect; outright disownment was one half of the previous definition for Old Shame before it got re-tooled to only allow in-universe examples^note the other half, that the creators go out of their way to suppress the work, was spun off into Bury Your Art.

From YMMV.Punisher 2022:

• Creator Backlash: Chuck Dixon, a veteran writer for the Punisher, has openly criticized and denounced this series, for its treatment of Frank Castle. He also talks about how Marvel are embarrassed by both the Punisher and his fans, and reveals that they have actually long been trying to get to get rid of the character for a while now.

Chuck Dixon was nothing to do with the 2022 Punisher series - as a former writer unhappy with the direction the franchise took after he left, that sounds like misuse?

Sounds more like Disowned Adaptation.

Yeah, I think so. Amended accordingly.