Thread current status:
It has been agreed by crowner to merge the Light Novel/ namespace into Literature/.
LightNovel namespace index -- excludes redirects
It has been agreed by crowner that Light Novel examples are to be sorted on trope pages as follows:
- If you're adding an example with LN in mind, place it in Literature.
- If you're adding an example from an Anime/Manga, but unsure if it was present in LN, place it in Anime/Manga.
- If you're adding an example from an Anime/Manga, but know it also happened in the source, place in in Literature.
- If you're adding an example from an Anime/Manga, and sure it did not happen in the source, place it in Anime/Manga even if the work is already listed in Literature.
- If you're moving an example, for example when renaming or handling redirects, and don't know much about other versions, instead just leave it where it was.
- If you know all versions of the work, move examples to the medium they're first featured in.
- Webcomic examples with adaptation go to either Webcomics or Anime/Manga following the above logic.
- Web Serial Novel are still Literature.
- There is to be no dedicated Light Novel folder or subpage on trope pages.
Edge case rulings:
- Due to extreme differences with the original Web Serial Novel, Overlord (2012) will be the hub page for the Overlord Light Novel and its adaptations. Overlord 2010 will cover the WSN.
Original post below.
This has now come up twice in Ask The Tropers in the past year that I know of.
The issue is pretty straightforward: where do we put examples from Light Novels on trope pages?
General options previously proposed:
- Put them in Anime and Manga since they're commonly adapted into them.
- Base things on the original medium, and group them with Literature.
- Take a Third Option and create a Light Novel folder.
Points about this media space that are commonly raised:
- The manga and especially anime adaptations tend to be more available and more familiar to the Western audiences that comprise most tropers.
- The adaptations into manga and anime are usually very faithful Compressed Adaptations, so most trope examples apply to all versions.
ETA: Related issue that came up:
- Should the Light Novel namespace be merged into Literature?
Here's a link to pages that are in the LightNovel/ namespace.
Edited by Tabs on Nov 22nd 2022 at 9:50:41 AM
I'm of the opinion that it is fine to merge the Light Novel namespace into Literature, as long as we keep an index of Light Novels, to make finding them easier.
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(she/her)
Maybe I should clarify in the crowner that nothing will happen to the Light Novel index since people are assuming that we will get rid of it and I am not sure why as again that was never on the table.
Edited by MacronNotes on Aug 3rd 2022 at 2:09:21 PM
Macron's notes
RJ Savoy
I was always a little puzzled that they were given their own namespace. They are by any definition literature, just a subsection of it peculiar to Japan.
But I think the reason is that they are so much closer to anime/manga than anything we think of as literature. Even those that haven't been adapted use similar conventions and often illustrations. Some are clearly written to test the waters for animation.
We will now see them lumped together with Shin Sekai Yori (which was a literary novel, not a light novel).
One thing I have to wonder about: our Light Novels page lists "Original English Language Light Novels". I can see that they use the same conventions, same appeal and have illustrations in the same style, but they can't be light novels in the true sense, which only applies to languages with ideograms that young readers cannot parse. It might be better to name it "Original English Language fiction in the style of light novels".
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the Retromancer
The crowner looks concerning for the first day. It's almost like it says Poetry/ and PictureBooks/ would be just as valid if they've ever existed.
Okay, I'll just let the democracy run its course without getting pushy.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Again, it's possible many of the downvotes were the result of early confusion. Some people remain and lurk (as proven by the Snapdragon thread) but not everyone does.
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Can lurkers even vote to begin with? (Sorry if this sounds off-topic but I'm really curious here.)
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Yeah, by lurkers, I mean people with no accounts.
Edited by CytoZytokine on Aug 3rd 2022 at 3:55:12 AM
(she/her)
I wouldn't some people just see the namespace being being deprecated and voting no without any further. Let's see how the crowner holds up in the end.
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The ones with accounts can.
Edited by MacronNotes on Aug 3rd 2022 at 6:52:36 AM
Macron's notes
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Yes? Unless by lurkers you mean people with no account, in which case I don't think so?
I was referring to people who read the thread but don't want to join the discussion. They're the majority of voters on most crowners.
Edited by WarJay77 on Aug 3rd 2022 at 6:53:04 AM
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
The Unknown
I'm pretty sure you need an account to vote. Lurkers can just be people active in other parts of the site.
I personally see no meaningful distinction that would justify a Light Novel namespace. Just because they're written like anime doesn't make them anime, and having a few nice illustrations doesn't change the fact that they're standard literature. If anything, they're a category of books targeting a specific demographic (like Young Adult novels), not a medium in their own right.
Edited by Karxrida on Aug 3rd 2022 at 3:58:53 AM
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Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
The only reason I was confused is because we had a case of a bounced user vandalizing a crowner, post bounce, so it makes things a little weird.
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Friends forevermore
Actual vandalism or just Bibble Bobble?
I had a dog-themed avatar before it was cool.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Actual vandalism. The troper in question showed up in the crowner history and may have even attached their name to it.
Edited by WarJay77 on Aug 3rd 2022 at 7:01:16 AM
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Bibble Bobble wasn't vandalism, it was a technical issue.
(she/her)
I don't remember if they are bounced or banned however I tested voting on a bounced account and it didn't go through. So, I think the admins fixed it already.
Anyways, back to light novels...
Macron's notes
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Yeah, sorry. The point is, lurkers can and do vote all the time.
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Goku Black
Well it's back up to 2:1 now. Well see how it goes?
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I'm helping!
We're in favor of depreciating LN as a namespace — and, honestly, as a folder too, though we understand that this would be a harder sell — primarily because there are questions about the exact boundary between what constitutes a "light novel" versus just "literature".
Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
TBH, having never heard of a Light Novel before using this wiki, for years I was convinced that it was just some type of manga or something because I could never, and still can't, wrap my head around what the genre actually means and why books are marketed as it and not just as normal ass novels.
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
In Japan at least, LNs are just Young Adult Literature and that's it. However, because the west feels the need to arbitrarily define media coming from Japan, they decided to lump LNs as "Young Adult Literature, but anime", and so that's why we often put LNs, anime, and manga together.
(she/her)
Well, I got this all from reading the Light Novel page but besides anime illustrations and being targeted towards a young audience, Light novels also contain simplified Kanji so that they are easier for the audience to read (that's why they are "light") than other forms of Japanese literature. There are similar novels classified to L Ns that might be in the Light Novel/ namespace that are in Chinese or Korean as well. Other than that, there's no difference.
Edited by MacronNotes on Aug 3rd 2022 at 8:01:47 AM
Macron's notes
Captain of USS Bajor
Also LNs in my experience tend to be similar to manga in volume length and degree of serialization. In print, tankoubon of manga tend to be about half an inch thick, and I've noticed LNs are usually about the same size. And they do kind of read like comic books in novel form.
Edited by StarSword on Aug 3rd 2022 at 8:33:56 AM
I didn't see this mentioned here, but if Light.Novel is merged with Literature, is Anime getting merged under Animation and Manga merged under Comic.Books?
(she/her)
No? This thread is to discuss the fate of the Light Novel/ namespace only.
Macron's notes
Crown Description:
Thanks, Mac. And yeah, we definitely keep the Light Novel page as a definition and index since it's a legitimate marketing term.