A project thread for the new Derivative Works/ namespace. The sandbox for the project is here.
The discussion agreed that adaptations of public domain works are not part of that work's "franchise", and their Franchise/ pages have to be reformatted and moved to the new namespace — DerivativeWorks/.
The current progress is handled at Sandbox.Derivative Works Namespace. Do not move pages to DerivativeWorks/ until the corresponding DerivativeWorks/ page draft is approved and stick to one work at a time.
For one thing, these simply aren't franchises. Fairytales are pretty much public domain. Anyone can make a story about these characters. It's not a franchise if it's just unrelated creators making unrelated adaptations. Second, I think these would function much better as normal indices or disambig pages. People who want to find a specific Snow White story would probably not expect to find it by clicking on the franchise button.
But what do you think?
I initially brought this up here
(in terms of the Cinderella one), but the discussion died almost immediately after. I figured that instead of keep bumping that thread, I'd make a new one here.
Edited by Synchronicity on Oct 14th 2022 at 12:42:47 PM
CG for short
I took a quick look at it, and I say we should keep the franchise page exclusively for the Disney adaptation.
Edited by Cutegirl920fire on Jun 28th 2021 at 11:40:39 PM
Victor of HGS S320 | "There's rosemary, that's for remembrance. Pray you, love, remember."
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I mean, again, I don't consider all of those to be franchises.
Certain things are. The Lion King is a good example, so is the aforementioned Tangled, and don't forget Frozen! . But not every DAC work has spun off into being a proper franchise.
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Professor Gigachad
Disney is a big enough company that nearly all of their movies get enough side content for a franchise page.
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Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Sure, in our terms, they qualify; I was speaking more in the general sense of the term. The non-TVT sense. But I guess the other definition is irrelevant here.
Edited by WarJay77 on Jun 28th 2021 at 10:42:25 AM
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
CG for short
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Yeah, I suppose you have a point. For example, a movie trilogy isn't normally considered part of a franchise unless the company behind it really wants to expand on it, whether it'll be through spin-offs or making more sequels that may or may not be in the same medium.
(Note, I may have been talking in non-TVT terms)
Edited by Cutegirl920fire on Jun 28th 2021 at 11:44:54 PM
Victor of HGS S320 | "There's rosemary, that's for remembrance. Pray you, love, remember."
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Right. Star Wars is a franchise. So is Lord of the Rings. But a trilogy like, say, In the Name of the King might not be so much.
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NaNo 4328 / 50,000
The old "start with one grain of sand; how many grains can be added before it becomes a heap?" paradox, eh?
I'm not a big fan of the name "Adaptations" for the namespace, and I think that I'd like to propose an alternative: PublicDomain/, a subpage namespace that indexes all works based on the original tale/franchise. We would still be taking the remakes/adaptations off the main page for the work and putting them together where people can find them easily.
Thus, The Hunchback of Notre Dame (Disney) would be indexed under PublicDomain.The Hunchback Of Notre Dame and Literature.The Hunchback Of Notre Dame would not qualify for a Franchise/ page because it only contains one medium (all other pages are about Public Domain remakes).
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
A "Public Domain" namespace doesn't sound like a bad idea.
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CG for short
I don't mind a Public Domain page either ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
PublicDomain/, to me, would seem to indicate that the work(s) on that page are public domain.
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
I see that problem, too. Clear then Concise, so probably needs another word to clarify. I've considered PublicDomainWorks/ to match up with FanWorks/, but I don't think that functions well. Maybe PublicDomainRemake/ instead? Or RemakeThePublicDomainWork/? That's getting long...
I'm not sure. That's why I only suggested PublicDomain/ earlier, because I'm not really convinced the additional word does much to clarify the situation.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Shorten it to PD? Like PD Works? PD Adaptations?
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
That would still be misleading. The only thing that comes to my mind is Franchisoid/ since they are kinda like franchises but not exactly.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Perhaps one of "Public Domain Sources", "Public Domain Sourced", or "Sourced From The Public Domain"?
My Games & Writing
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Seems like the clearer we are, the less concise we can be...
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Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Bump. Anyone have any other ideas?
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AdaptedFromPublicDomain, AdaptedFromPD, PublicDomainToAdaptation, PDToAdaptation...
Should derivative works that aren't straight adaptations be included? E.g. Frozen (2013) for The Snow Queen. Probably, otherwise a lot of pages would still have nowhere to be properly listed.
WorksBasedOn, AdaptedInto (syntactically similar to Referenced by...), AdaptedFrom, DerivedFrom, DerivedInto (or whatever the grammatically correct version of that would be)...
AdaptiveWorks or DerivativeWorks, to match FanWorks? PDSourcedAdaptations, PDSourcedDerivativeWorks, PDSourcedDerivatives, PDSourcedDerivations...
Edited by Twiddler on Jul 12th 2021 at 9:53:30 AM
I like WorksBasedOn out of those. It makes it as clear as possible that this page is about the source work/myth/story, and will function as an index of the adaptations and derivations.
Edited by HeraldAlberich on Jul 13th 2021 at 1:43:18 PM
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Works Based On is a great idea.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
WorksBasedOn/ sounds like a good idea.
So using The War of the Worlds as an example, I wrote up a potential draft of what one of these WorksBasedOn/ pages might look like.
I made two versions, one that has brief descriptions of the works, and another that would just function as a plain list of works like an index.
I also organized both so that the works listed are sorted by how exactly they're based on the original novel.
Edited by Primis on Jul 21st 2021 at 11:30:02 AM
I like the organization! However I question the disambiguating of the original book to The War of the Worlds (1898). This isn't like Franchise pages where series may need to be separated from their first installments when it comes to page titles — this would be a subpage of a work page. Same with ReferencedBy.The War Of The Worlds.
Which means either these subpages should be at WorksBasedOn.The War Of The Worlds 1898 (assuming we go with that namespace) and ReferencedBy.The War Of The Worlds 1898, respectively, or the Literature/ page should be moved back to Literature.The War Of The Worlds.
Or keep the Literature page where it is, and make WorksBasedOn.The War Of The Worlds 1898 and ReferencedBy.The War Of The Worlds 1898 redirects to WorksBasedOn.The War Of The Worlds and ReferencedBy.The War Of The Worlds?
The thing is though, not all of these derivative works are specifically based on the novel. Take for instance the Simpsons one, that one is more based on the infamous 1938 radio play than it is the novel. A lot of them just take a Broad Strokes approach to adapting or spoofing the story.
That being said, I'd be fine with making this hypothetical page at WorksBasedOn.The War Of The Worlds 1898 anyway, since they all owe their existence to the novel.
Maybe the page for the radio play could have a subpage redirecting to the novel's?
Then again, maybe having it as a subpage isn't always feasible. Franchise.Peter Pan lists multiple original works.
Crown Description:
The previous crowner agreed to create a new namespace for subpages of original works that have fallen into the public domain due to misuse from the Multimedia franchise namespace and the Fan Works namespace. The following options had the most support during discussion.
Sub-franchises can exist. Snow White may not have been the best example but there are other Disney franchises that do fall under this like The Hunchback Of Notre Dame, which the sorting of is a complete mess.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jun 28th 2021 at 7:41:36 AM
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