Ambiguous Name: N Word Privileges

N-Word Privileges is supposed to refer to people using a slur or making jokes about a group they belong to, when people outside the group are not allowed to do the same. But a lot of examples omit the "Privileges" part, meaning either that it's not mentioned whether or not other people are allowed to use it, or the slur is used by a person who doesn't have the privilege at all. Wick check here.

Edited by nw09 on Mar 21st 2021 at 8:26:49 AM

Opening for reals now.

This seems to be something most profanity-related articles have in common. I've seen the word "bitch" potholed to This Is for Emphasis, Bitch! regardless of context. Heck, it's not even just profanity; a lot of Flat "What" Sinkholes ignore the "flat" part and simply use it to refer to the word "what" itself (or even just the act of being confused itself, even if the word "what" isn't used), even if it's said with with a regular inflection instead of being either a Flat "What" or a Big "WHAT?!".

Edited by GastonRabbit on Apr 30th 2021 at 9:04:54 AM

I know that the f-word tends to get potholed to Precision F-Strike too.

Country Matters is another profanity-related trope that confuses me. The description and Laconic talk about how the word “cunt” is seen differently in different places, but every single example or potholing of the trope I’ve ever seen is just “the word ‘cunt’ is used”.

The worst Precision F-Strike potholes I've seen are for instances of "fuck" being said by an example of Sir Swears-a-Lot.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Apr 30th 2021 at 9:15:22 AM

IDK, Autonomous N Word Allowance? Slightly longer but may be clearer it's about the fact the only members can use the slur. I think we should leave Country Matters and other vulgar tropes for another time.

Edited by Piterpicher on Apr 30th 2021 at 5:04:56 PM

That's at least better than the current because it better indicates who has the privileges.

As for the stuff about other profanity tropes, sorry if I came across as derailing. I was mainly pointing out that this is part of a bigger problem because profanity tropes in general have a problem with people thinking the word itself is the only part that matters.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Apr 30th 2021 at 10:22:40 AM

Maybe Autonomous Slur Privileges, to make it clear that it's about any slur in general? Or Exclusive Slur Privileges.

However, this wouldn't cover instances where someone makes a joke about their own group, but doesn't seem to have a problem with outsiders doing it as well. That sounds like a trope, however. Should there be a new one?

That Country Matters is misused suprises me, given the name.

I mean, I'm all for clarity, but I worry that removing the mention of the N-word may sound like censorship (yes, I know it's not the word itself, but it may just look bad to remove even an obfuscation), plus Tropes Are Flexible may allow for a slightly more specific name. And I specifically used the synonym "Allowance" for alliteration. Ironically, "Exclusive" is probably too wide of a word, as it may suggest privileges for other groups which I'm not sure are allowed for the trope. As for that trope idea, maybe you can make it if you feel like it.

Edited by Piterpicher on Apr 30th 2021 at 9:02:44 PM

Funny, I never even knew what the pun meant until you mentioned it. I thought it was just a euphemism.

Yes, "Autonomous" and "Allowance" would work. As for the "N-word" thing, it seems to me that (generally) trope names try to be more inclusive, and this also isn't even about slurs specifically so much as any derogatory comments, which is probably not more common to black people than with anyone else. It would only "look bad" if you compared it to the previous name; if you just saw it in the trope list, it would look normal, and I'm not sure most people would even see it as "censorship" if they knew of the previous name (or if they did, that they would have a problem with that).

Edited by nw09 on Apr 30th 2021 at 12:10:41 PM

I pronounce Country like in Count, so that is why it suprises me.

Let's talk about N-Word Privileges here, please. Anything wrong with my post?

Edited by Piterpicher on Apr 30th 2021 at 9:08:21 PM

Besides a potential rename, is there anything else we might want to do with this? (Besides cleanup.)

I am not sure that renaming will fix the misuse. None of the proposed names are more clear to me.

I think the issue is that we don't have a trope for "saying the n word". Not totally convinced this is tropeworthy myself, but the argument would be that the word (and perhaps other racial slurs) is so taboo that its use is shocking. Precision F-Strike and Country Matters have the same impact on the story, which is why they are being discussed. Perhaps merging all three into a Shocking Curse Usage trope would force people to focus their entries on the impact of the word, rather than just collecting contextless lists of swear word occurrence.

Contrarily, I could see keeping a Shocking Racial Slur trope separate from the other two, as it has additional meaning in demonstrating a character is racist and providing Deliberate Values Dissonance.

Yeah, "N-word privileges" is very much the normal term for it, renaming this won't help. We need a cleanup effort and one or both of the tropes that ^ mentions.

I think merging all three into Shocking Curse Usage is a last resort, considering that Precision F-Strike has 10000+ wicks. Now I can at least support Shocking Racial Slur per reasons stated.

Also, I don't know I'd say N-Word Privileges is a normal term. At least, I can't find results of it from before the creation of the trope. So it seems like the term became normal thanks of us, and keeping it is more of a Grandfather Clause thing.

Edited by Piterpicher on Apr 30th 2021 at 10:37:45 AM

TBF, the current title could always be made a redirect to preserve searches and inbounds.

Eh?

At least, I can't find results of it from before the creation of the trope. So it seems like the term became normal because of us, and keeping it is more of a Grandfather Clause thing.

It is not even remotely relevant why a term became normal.

I think the problem with the title is the "n-word" part, which makes people think that the trope is literally just about the n-word. Maybe Slur Privileges would be more clear?

Yeah, that's my concern too. Even if the title is common, it's probably only used for, well, the N-Word.

Would making the trope In-Universe Examples Only help too? I feel like the the trope should only apply if the characters acknowledge other people that use their words is bad.

Remember, Country Matters is not "cunt is said".