Victoria Cleanup

Actually, Make an Example of Them happens more than once in the book. I think you're referring to the Burn the Witch! scene, but the mass execution of the "cultural Marxist" professors also counts IMHO.

"But... nobody told me I needed a signature!"

Funny enough, neither of those are actually listed. The example as it is looks like this:

"What a century this week has been." - Seung Min Kim

Yuck. Nuke the first sentence for sure.

Just to get this settled so we can finally do the move: Do we want to go with StarSword's disclaimer or the last paragraph on Literature.Victoria?

Edited by MacronNotes on Feb 26th 2023 at 5:59:06 AM

Macron's notes

StarSword's is a bit wordcrufty. If that's cleaned up it's the best option.

I had a dog-themed avatar before it was cool.

I second that.

"What a century this week has been." - Seung Min Kim

A while back there was discussion about putting a comment on problematic work pages with their own cleanup threads - we agreed some wording and I added it for Snoot Game, with a suggestion we might reuse it elsewhere, and then life distracted me for a bit.

Just (finally) added it for Victoria - let me know if there are any concerns. Wording is:

I've slightly rephrased it for subpages shared (or potentially shared) with Series.Victoria, to make it clear it's only regarding the novel.

^ Sounds good.

OK to move this along, I think we only need the first sentence of Star Sword's note here. Would that be good enough? If so, I'll go ahead and move the page and do the swap.

Edited by MacronNotes on Apr 5th 2023 at 9:31:57 AM

Macron's notes

OK, if there aren't any objections to ^ within the next three days I'll go ahead with the move and sandbox swap.

Macron's notes

I think that Lone of text is a good add.

Okay, I did the page moves and swapped in the sandboxes. So, I guess we can start wick cleaning now.

Macron's notes

Is it safe to remove the Common Knowledge entry on the use of "orcs"? I vaguely remember a discussion on it that agreed to cutting it.

I nuked the following example for the book on Democracy Is Flawed, on the grounds that the Confederation only counts as a democracy if you're white, male, straight, and evangelical Christian.

• Victoria showcases the full spectrum of democracies and their strengths and weaknesses. In the backstory, the failing representative democracy of the United States had good intentions originally, but became deadlocked and corrupt when the legislators and bureaucratic leviathans of the federal government grew too distant from the people and were bribed by the special interests. The main story line features the titular Victoria, a direct democracy building on the Articles of Confederation; it has less corruption and unelected bureaucracies, but is correspondingly more vulnerable to populist demagogy, racism and the influence of political generals. And then, of course, there is their enemy: the Democratic Republic of Azania, a Lady Land that starts out as a democracy but soon is one in name only, after fascists take over its elected assembly.

I mean... isn't that how the original democracy worked? In Greece, not every citizen was allowed to vote, but they still invented democracy. And when America began, the democracy was exactly like that — only the people protected under the constitution could vote. Democracy doesn't mean equality and equal voting rights, only that things are decided by a vote which should, in theory, reflect what the majority wants.

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Yeah, but the example doesn't say that. "The titular Victoria's democracy is correspondingly more vulnerable to racism" is hilariously understating things when it's inherently racist to begin with.

It's just more whitewashing bullshit.

Edited by nrjxll on May 29th 2023 at 7:13:57 AM

I mean, not defending the example so much as arguing against the removal reason. The example being nonsense is one thing, but it still qualifies as a democracy no matter how terrible it is.

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

By any reasonable measure, the Greek city-states wouldn't qualify as democracies nowadays, nor indeed would the pre-1824 United States: they didn't so much have democracies as they had oligarchies a la Renaissance-era Italian republics. The Confederation goes one step further by mixing in patriarchal ethnocracy. The example is misuse because the book doesn't portray a democracy to begin with.

Edited by StarSword on May 30th 2023 at 5:56:10 AM

The Oxford definition:

"a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives."

So yes, even if only certain members are eligible, it counts as a democracy.

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

You can complain about this until the cows come home but sadly this is democracy. Not all words have noble origins or meanings despite seeming so.

Oops mistake.

Edited by AegisP on May 30th 2023 at 6:11:50 AM

Discord: Waido X 255#1372 If you cant contact me on TV Tropes do it here.

Heck, even the modern United States isn't a true democracy; it's a democratic republic.

And the countries with "Democratic Republic" in their name tend to be neither.

I had a dog-themed avatar before it was cool.

x SkylaNoivern I don't remember the discussion on the Common Knowledge entry but I'm happy to take your word for it and agree on the cut.

...

Okay I hopped over to the YMMV page to read the entry and Jesus, I now agree with the cut much more strongly and fervently than I did a few moments ago. The entry in question is 'It's supposedly common knowledge that the protagonists use 'orc' as a racial slur, but they're actually just describing people of "worthless moral character", who just so happen to overwhelmingly be ethnic minorities.' Cut, cut and cut.

I'll cut it.

By the way, is it possible to make an ATT entry on a user who hasn't been active in about 2 years? Since it seems to be agreed that Idumean's troping wasn't in good-faith.

Idumean Patriot has already been reported. suspended and let go on a stern warning. They disappeared shortly after. I don't think there's anything to report unless they come back and the same things that lead to their last suspension.

Macron's notes

can someone please reattach review page back to work? Right now it is flopping at Literature/victoria

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/reviews.php?target_group=Literature&target_title=Victoria

I moved them but for future reference, you can request review moves on this thread.

Edited by MacronNotes on Jun 7th 2023 at 10:16:29 AM

Macron's notes