Marvel Cinematic Universe (MCU) Cleanup

TBF to Anddrix, Alley didn't actually ping them correctly...

I might have P Med them in the past to come to the thread directly. I can try again.

Edited by AlleyOop on May 4th 2021 at 11:51:00 AM

I believe that most of the examples I added recently, do fit the rules for what's allowed on the MCU franchise page -e.g. it has to be either a trope example that can apply to the entire universe or is a trope that has at least three examples from three different sub-franchises from the MCU.

I've even just removed some examples I added a while back that I've realised didn't fit with the above (e.g. they had two example or had three or more examples but from only two or less sub-franchises).

If I've misunderstood the rule or there's something else wrong with the examples I've added feel free to correct me and point them out and I'll remove or adjust them.

It's all right, Anddrix. You didn't do anything wrong. We're just concerned since these are big long entries when the pages already have issues with their length.

You might want to think a little more about the tropes you're adding and whether they fit the overall franchise. Just because a trope is present within multiple works doesn't mean it applies to the franchise as a whole. For instance, one of your new additions was for Unfinished, Untested, Used Anyway; you named five MCU works it showed up in, but that doesn't mean it's a regular thing — there are around thirty other works that don't involve it.

And even if you do think a trope should be added, see if you can summarize it. We don't need all the details here; that's what the trope and specific work pages are for.

I went through the MCU trope pages and tried to clear out some of the long entries and update others with new examples from Phase Four so far. If you guys want to make your own passes, go ahead — there are some entries that I left alone that perhaps should be cut or rewritten; and maybe some that I cut should have a revised version be re-added. Up to you. Maybe if we trim enough, then we can re-merge the "A" and "B to F" pages.

I have noticed that the fridge page Avengers: Infinity War is a mess in the fridge horror section. There are countless cases of real-life things that will malfunction because of the snap and the decrease in available manpower, and those should be grouped together. Besides, there are several repeated entries that would need their own "snap".

Question: if size alone justifies it, would it make sense to make a fridge subpage on the snap alone, split from the main Infinity War fridge page?

Maybe remove duplicates first and see what’s left.

Is there a cleanup thread for fridge pages, to consult specific entries?

With What If…? (2021) premiering in about a week, there's something I'd like to hammer out before it launches. One of the pages I work on is Timeline.Marvel Cinematic Universe, but I'm not quite convinced that What If? should be on there. On the one hand, it has been declared canon to the MCU, and I just saw an interview that we'll be seeing at least one of the alternate timelines on an ongoing basis (specifically, the Peggy-as-Captain Britain one). On the other hand, it's an anthology and we don't know if any of the timelines will intersect with the main one, so it feels like this page is not the best place to document every single one. Either way, I'd like some input and for us to come to some level of agreement before the series starts (subject to change depending on what's in the series, of course).

On a related note, I've been toying with the idea with removing some of the old Marvel Television shows from the page, as their canonicity has become less certain, most of them have been pretty disconnected from the movies anyway, and half of them (like the later Netflix seasons) were never added to begin with and only have placeholders. But I know that's not something I should do unilaterally and I'd like to hear some opinions.

(Paging ~troperaiser; as the other major editor on the MCU timeline, I'd like to hear from them specifically.)

I say wait and see until the first season ends, if it ends up setting up any movies in the main timeline

Why not just wait 'til after the show is released before trying to piece it together?

I'm perfectly fine with waiting and making the decision whether to add or not once we've seen the actual series, but we can't count on everyone else following the same plan. There's always the possibility of some random troper jumping in and adding stuff after an episode or two. I figure that if there's a consensus, even if it's just to wait, we can put a note on the page and maybe get ahead of potential conflicts over what "should" and "shouldn't" be there. Better to decide on adding something missing later on than cutting something that somebody added.

As for the older shows, the rule right now is that they are canon until Feige says otherwise or until they are explicitly rebooted. I think we should go on with it.

All right, it sounds like we're agreeing on "just wait", so I'll add a note to that effect to the page to pre-empt someone adding the series before we're ready.

Another issue: is it correct to reference Major's character as "Kang" in trope descriptions, or should we stick to "He who remains"?

Current MCU: Gamora 's page has three subheaders:

• Tropes shared by old Gamora and the new variant
• Tropes that are only for old Gamora
• Tropes that are only for the new variant

Can we do the same for Loki and his main variant and create subheaders on MCU: Loki?

• Tropes until the end of the Avengers - as a subheader on MCU: Loki
• Tropes from the Dark World on until Infinity War - as a subheader on MCU: Loki
• Tropes from Endgame, Loki and any future appearances - on MCU: Loki (Variant L1130)

Edited by Asherinka on Aug 12th 2021 at 2:09:04 PM

GrigorII: It'd depend on the context, but I'd say to generally stick with "He Who Remains". Kang and He Who Remains are separate characters, and Kang hasn't shown up or even been formally named onscreen yet.

They explicitly confirmed the statue in the end is Kang in bts videos and interviews. They also confirmed HWR is a version of Immortus. So we should use HWR for the character Sylvie kills and Kang for the one who has overtaken the TVA

Edited by Asherinka on Aug 13th 2021 at 11:36:59 AM

I asked because, until it is done so, we may know that the character will be used, but we have no guarantee that he will be named Kang (remember the case of Wanda). There are Comic-Book Movies Don't Use Codenames and Adaptation Name Change. General audiences may associate the name "Kang" with Kang & Kodos from the Simpsons or with the memetic Khan from Star Trek lore ("KHAAAAAAAAAN!!!!", sorry, couldn't resist), so Marvel may want to avoid the annoying jokes and memes and make him simply "The Conqueror".

I think they also said in that old presentation for phase 4 that the villain for Ant-man 3 is Kang, but you'd better check that. They also had full rights for this character from the get go unlike Wanda. They were not using her Scarlet Witch title until they acquired Fox and got back the rights for it.

Edited by Asherinka on Aug 13th 2021 at 10:05:19 PM

Another one caused by Loki: the "What if" and "No way home" pages frequently have to mention the main MCU timeline (for comparison, origin/adaptation, interaction, etc). Is it correct to keep calling it "the Sacred Timeline"? Neither of those showed any relation so far with the events of Loki or the TVA, we don't know if that name will stick outside the context of the Loki series. And, as Lord Voldemort pointed, calling it the "sacred" timeline is a bit presumptuous.

So… the villains of the Spider-Man Trilogy and The Amazing Spider-Man Series are being split across their home franchises and MCU: Other Supervillains for… some reason, permission to merge?

I'd say not yet, because we don't know the whole story and they may end up being separate characters after all. It could be a situation like, say, Avengers Assemble where they're treated as the "same" characters but they're not part of the original canon and liberties can be taken. Or it could be a "Quicksilver in WandaVision" fakeout again.

Do we have any where Shang-Chi should go on the timeline/recap? It definitely takes place after Endgame, and a while after Wanda Vision, but where does it land in regards to Falcon and the Winter Soldier and Far From Home?

Let me know your thoughts

Kathy's family mentioned that they were preparing for the Day of the Dead celebration, namely giving gifts to the deceased on the grave. Qingming, as they would call it, would happen around April 5th. It's also clear it's after Avengers Endgame.

Shang-Chi and Wenwu mention that Shang-Chi has been in hiding for about 10 years in USA.

Xialing left the Ten Rings after waiting for Shang-Chi to return for 6 years.

At age 14, Shang-Chi is tasked to kill the man who killed his mother. He ran away and hid in the USA after being given the task.

Wenwu trained Shang-Chi to be a professional killer for 7 years since the death of Yi Ling.

1996, Wenwu meets Yi Ling, fell in love, and disbanded the Ten Rings.