The Broken Base cleanup thread discusses about examples in Broken Base, but this talks about examples in YMMV pages of works containing Base-Breaking Character, (despite being an Example Sectionectomy, this can still be seen in the YMMV pages of works) where the details on what is suitable is also vague.
Here is the criteria for Base-Breaking Character:
- A long-term, sustained conflict: Characters that were simply hated and loved, then had their interest evaporated away (both positive and negative) after a few months doesn't count. Characters in upcoming works also don't count.
- A vicious conflict: Factions that have little problem co-existing and doesn't mind about what the other faction likes or dislikes about the character doesn't count. If it's not particularly vicious and heated, then it would be cut or be listed as a Downplayed Trope.
- Two (or more) vocal, almost equally sized factions: A tiny Vocal Minority that doesn't shut up their pet peeve, whilst being outnumbered by more reasonable fans don't count. Nor does a Silent Majority who doesn't make a big deal with the other side count. If one of the hating factions is significantly bigger than the other, it would be classified as The Scrappy or an Ensemble Dark Horse.
- Little to no Middle ground: Scenarios where most of the fandom doesn't care about the character, don't count.
Base-Breaking Character is when half of the fandom likes a character, yet another equally sized half dislikes it. Now that happens, but the problem is, some entries aren't really contentious (thus not resulting in flame wars when someone says they "liked that character"). Also, several entries are one-sided towards the negative or the positive side describing that only side in detail, but then wrapping up with a single line saying "But the other half likes that character". A correct way would be describing it like "a split in the Fandom on who likes it or not", with details on both sides why they're liked and disliked.
Here's an example from YMMV.Undertale:
- Alphys. A lot of players find her character gimmick of constant messages and attempts to help more annoying than funny, especially on repeat playthroughs. And even though she has sympathetic reasons, the reveal that she's been experimenting on sick monsters to create the Amalgamates and manipulating the player to feel better about herself doesn't help, especially since she never directly apologizes for the latter.
While it may have annoyed players due to these reasons above, there has been a considerable amount of fanarts and comics or her, and not only that, the like-dislike situation hasn't been so contentious (compared to Sans, whom he's popular, now he sucks.)
edited 21st Feb '18 1:46:31 PM by AppleGates
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
maybe when P 3 P as once released but these days there doesn't seem to be any who mind her existence, with her absence being one of the biggest complaints lobbied at Reloaded
So that entry can go or does it stay?
Edited by Superdude96 on Feb 23rd 2024 at 7:02:44 AM
What about my entry
?!
Edited by NicMasterTrope on Feb 23rd 2024 at 9:57:54 PM
Dunno. I’m extremely unfamiliar with Hilda and the fandom.
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
If there's a very large third group that doesn't love or hate him, then he's probably not base-breaking. He might count for They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot or They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character, if the main criticism is that he's underused or not explored enough.
Any thoughts about my initial post?
- The female main character herself is rather divisive. Some love her inclusion for providing an interesting "what if" scenario (and with the main theme of Portable being the butterfly effect, this also fits) and for her personality contrasting with the male main character while still keeping the "masking feelings" theme. They may also like how some of the less interesting Social Links get replaced with S.E.E.S. members. Others see her as unnecessary and believe she ruins the game's themes of overcoming despair and accepting death with said alternate scenario and personality, and dislike how SEES is made obviously friendlier in her route (a criticism fans of older titles sometimes level at newer titles in general). The memes and exposure surrounding her also induce Hype Backlash for non-fans and those that have played the console version but do not try Portable, calling her overrated. It was bad enough that when an alleged lead regarding a theoretical remake mentioned cutting out Portable content (which turned to be reality per the reveal of Reload), the fanbase split between those calling it a worst-case scenario and those celebrating the removal.
Thanks, I just need to confirm that, a lot of fans are disappointed that there’s to explain about him, so he just wasted character, rather than downright Scrappy
Maybe rework into Character Perception Evolution
Agree with this
This edit was added on the Spider-Man (Insomniac) page and then updated earlier today;
- Base-Breaking Character: Mary Jane, especially in the first game. While there is some criticism of her characterization and decisions, the main point of contention are the stealth sequences, which many find boring and unnecessary. The sequel is widely considered to have handled it better, with her plot feeling more relevant to the story and the stealth sequences being more effectively integrated.
Is this a proper use of the trope? Seems pretty one-sided/purely critical to me.
I mean, I’ve seen people express their dislike for MJ along with the people defending her so I think she counts. Then again, it’s been five years since the game’s been released so maybe fan’s perception of her might’ve changed but I dunno.
I have noticed on MHA YMMV page that divisiveness over Eri and Star and Stripe is caused by narrative’s treatement of them rather than their characters. Should we remove them then? Because as far as I remember the character is base-breaking for their likability as character rather than how story treats them
Ferdinand Von Aegir fan
Someone added the below to the YMMV page for Baldur's Gate III. Personally I don't think it is a good entry because it feels like it uses a broad overview to justify complaining about a specific part of the character. Like the "those who like them" bit is very vague, while the "those who don't like them" is extremely specific to one part of the character. Also doesn't really line up with the events of the game, as even without her role, Ketheric will always do a Redemption Rejection, which even the "girlfriend" mentioned in the entry doesn't really disagree with him needing to be stopped, so it isn't even fully correct.
Dame Aylin is rather divisive among the fanbase, primarily for two reasons: her personality and her actions at the end of act two in attacking Ketheric Thorm. Either you find her aggressive bravado and righteous fury enjoyable and her rage justified considering how she was imprisoned by Ketheric for years and years, or you find her a bloodthirsty hypocrite, as well as the only thing stopping the party putting Ketheric on the path of redemption and going against her girlfriend's wishes by brutalising the corpse of her father.
Muramasa got.
Yeah im not sure how her being a gung-ho warrior makes her a "hypocrite".
She doesnt denounce Ketheric or anyone else for being violent, she just has a lot of rage built up because she spent over a hundred years imprisoned, tortured, even being killed and having her energy siphoned by Ketheric. And the game does not frame her stomping Ketheric as a good thing.
She's a Paladin and one who clearly takes fighting evil as a large part of her duties in addition to healing, protecting and spreading the word of her mother. Thats not being a hypocrite, thats just what Paladins do.
And, as you pointed out, Aylin has nothing to do with Ketheric's not being redeemed.
For being factually wrong, biased (shes called bloodthirsty but no examples are given of how shes bloodthirsty) and just saying "people have different opinions on her" it should be cut.
Base breaking characters arent just "you like em or you dont" there has to be some evidence that there are heated, continued arguments in the fandom about them and i havent seen anything like that.
Edited by ArthurEld on Feb 27th 2024 at 1:18:17 AM
Ferdinand Von Aegir fan
^ Yeah I agree. The most I've seen that splits people is how brash and unapologetic she is for loving Isobel, which (ignoring bigots) is mostly people being split on if its funny or annoying. Even then, it isn't really enough to say she's a BBC, its just a specific part of her that some players like or don't like, not really because she herself is overly polarizing.
Plus, the entry has a bit of "her treatment of a villain seems excessive", which doesn't inspire faith in the honesty of the entry.
Muramasa got.
What about my post?
From The Legend of Korra YMMV
- Korra is one of the most divisive characters: Some like her due to her take on the Avatar role of making humans and spirits coexist, but others dislike her due to finding her a "hero" who acts like a massive jerk toward everyone most of the time for no good reason, along with her rudeness, which feels like it's swept under the rug as if nothing happened afterward. Another salty point was her hero's journey; some found it fine and others felt that she simply developed her powers as the plot demanded it.
This comes of as one-sided complaining to me. At very least, I see no evidence that people who do like her do so because of that one bizarrely specific thing.
Yeah, at the very least that needs to get rewritten.
Is it really one sided though? In my experience, Korra is the type of character people would frequently fight over but this was a few years ago.
It's one sided because the thing that's brought up for why people would like Korra is very narrow and the things brought up for why people wouldn't like her is very broad.
Like, Korra has more positive traits than just "helping humans and spirits coexist." That's honestly a pretty minor portion of her character and is more of a plot thing than a characterization thing.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
As someone who's been in an ATLA and LOK phase lately, yeah, Korra is divisive. I know some people who absolutely love her character, while others find her unlikable and boring. But she definitely has many glossed over good aspects, such as her developed sense of empathy and diplomacy and her handling of multiple serious conflicts over the four seasons.
Edited by WarJay77 on Mar 1st 2024 at 2:22:11 PM
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yeah, Korra definitely counts but that entry needs to be rewritten as it glosses over a lot of reasons people like her.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
While we’re at it, I brought this up weeks ago but never got any feedback.
- Base-Breaking Character: Some fans love Wonder Woman's depiction as a confident, fierce warrior whose abilities are almost on par with Superman, while others feel her aggressive attitude made her an unlikable Adaptational Jerkass, given that her Friend to All Living Things traits from the comics are heavily downplayed on the show. There's also the question of whether or not the heavy Ship Tease between her and Batman works or not, with some finding it a Fan-Preferred Couple that should have moved to Official Couple status (if not outright been moved to the comics as well), and others finding it a forced pairing that comes off as the writers using Batman as an author-insert (not helped by the fact that it is far from his only DCAU pairing, bringing Ship-to-Ship Combat into it as well). For the most part, where you sit on that issue tends to depend on whether you view the show's treatment on it as "they're equal partners" or "Wonder Woman is Batman's love interest."
Do people really argue about this version of Wonder Woman? I’ve only met just one person who heavily dislike her in the cartoon and comics but that’s just about it
Do you guys think that Hun qualifies as Base-Breaking Character? Although he is listed as The Scrappy due to being flat Bruce Lee Clone and not resembling his 2003 incarnation, I actually like him due to being hilarious Bruce Lee Clone and there are comments on Youtube from people who think that he had potential as Casey Evil Counterpart. What do you guys think?
(Btw, I am new troper here and this my first post on this discussion).
I’ve been nosing around the Persona 3 YMMV section and came across this entry:
I’m not as active in the fandom but do people really fight over the female protagonist? Because I’ve never seen much divide over her.
Edited by Superdude96 on Feb 22nd 2024 at 9:12:09 AM