The latter trope's page indicates that it is a subtrope of the former. It's ok for overlap to exist or for the same scene to be listed on mulitple relevant pages.
No, the other one.
Examples of a subtrope should only be listed on the subtrope, and not on the supertrope, unless it's a variant that spreads outside the definition of the subtrope.
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I would agree with Another Duck, examples should not be doubled if possible. Problem is that the current image of Glamour Failure depicts what supposedly is covered on The Mirror Shows Your True Self, inviting misuse.
Zzzzzzzzzz
The problem I see, reading both of the tropes, is that The Mirror Shows Your True Self doesn't really cover "Vampires don't reflect", because what's happening there is that the mirror is not showing the "true self" — the vampire is real, and (s)he's present, despite what the mirror shows.
edited 3rd Jul '17 12:02:13 PM by Madrugada
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
No, the other one.
You could possible argue that it shows nothing because a vampire doesn't have a soul, being undead and all. Or something like that. But yeah, even in that case, it'd be stretching it a bit too thin.
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We could make it a separate trope Missing Reflection, similar to Casts No Shadow.
So, Let Me Get This Straight...: Glamour Failure is a Super-Trope to The Mirror Shows Your True Self, both tropes contain examples of vampires not having reflections, some of those examples are duplicated across both tropes, and that means a cleanup is needed.
I think Eeroock has a good idea. If we made a trope Missing Reflection, would it be a Sub-Trope or a Sister Trope to The Mirror Shows Your True Self? After reviewing the already existing tropes, I think Missing Reflection would make more sense as a Sister Trope, based on both Madrugada's argument and how Glamour Failure lists both "no reflection" and "true reflection" on one-asterisk bullet points, instead of either on a two-asterisk bullet point directly below the other. This would also make it a Sister Trope to Casts No Shadow.
Assuming that we made the trope Missing Reflection, here's the Wiki Magic that would need doing:
- Sort through the examples on Glamour Failure and The Mirror Shows Your True Self, and transplant them to Missing Reflection as needed
- Search for links to Glamour Failure and The Mirror Shows Your True Self on other pages of the wiki
- Rewrite links as needed
- Re-alphabetize examples on works pages as needed
- Index Missing Reflection on
I won't claim that this is a complete to-do list, I've never launched a trope and I probably missed something.
The debate on what to do about the image currently used on Glamour Failure will probably need to happen regardless of whether or not we make a new trope. Am I correct in saying that there's a place elsewhere for such a debate?
One last question, what does "TRS material" mean?
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TRS refers to "trope repair shop". It is the forum where we discuss what is broken about a single trope/work and look for solutions, much like what's happened here. Because so many discussions have come to a conclusion but the work was not enacted, those threads are automatically locked. The first post in the thread has to bring proof that the page is broken (which eroock was searching for with this thread).
Image Picking is the forum where tropers arrive at consensus on images displayed by the wiki. It also contains the rules for what images are allowed on pages.
Good job analyzing the steps for writing the Missing Reflection trope. Are you also aware of the Trope Launch Pad?
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.Hi, crazysamaritan, thanks for shepherding me. I was vaguely aware of the Trope Launch Pad, I just had no reason to fiddle with it until now. I just returned from some research on how to use it and how not to use it. Should I go ahead and attempt to put Missing Reflection on the launch pad? (Great name for the trope, by the way, straight to the point.) I don't want to jump the gun before we reach a consensus on what plan of action to take.
If someone goes to the Image Picking Forum, squawks about the picture at Glamour Failure, and (after a proper debate) gets the image replaced, we can definitely reuse it and its caption on Missing Reflection. I don't think I'd be good at articulating a case for replacement, though.
If not for this anchor I'd be dancing between the stars. At least I can try to write better vampire stories than Twilight.
No, the other one.
Filling in a missing supertrope or adding a subtrope is a reasonable solid reason for an Image Pickin' thread. There's often some reshuffling to be done then. That's not usually a problem, and can normally be easily handled after the pages have been fixed.
Check out my fanfiction!OK, here's what I see so far: Squawking on the Image Picking Forum will be made significantly easier AFTER we take whatever plan of action we agree on. There was almost two weeks of silence in between eroock's suggestion for making Missing Reflection and my post supporting that suggestion. Nobody has raised any objections to the current plan of action, so I'm off to the Trope Launch Pad. Wish me luck and help me fix any noob mistakes I make!
If not for this anchor I'd be dancing between the stars. At least I can try to write better vampire stories than Twilight.I launched it! Now I wait and see if it gets any hats...
If not for this anchor I'd be dancing between the stars. At least I can try to write better vampire stories than Twilight.Silly noob me got my terminology mixed up. The trope's up and indexed after properly going through YKTTW. I've combed through Glamour Failure and The Mirror Shows Your True Self and either transplanted or linked examples. It's going to take a LOT of Wiki Magic to correct links on works pages. I hope this fixes Eroock's original concern.
If not for this anchor I'd be dancing between the stars. At least I can try to write better vampire stories than Twilight.
Both Glamour Failure and The Mirror Shows Your True Self currently handle the scenario of vampires not appearing in a mirror, leading to 24 works appearing on both pages. Do you think this is TRS material or can this be resolved another way?