Can't understand how Anvilicious works....

From what I see in the Article, "Anvilicious" is a "obvious message". So, is it actually counts if a character (A) tell what he has learn to character (B), when character (B) didn't understand the lesson yet in the context of the story?

(If I misplace this discussion, feel free to say it & I'll quickly make another in the proper place.....)

Are you talking about applying the trope to other works of fiction, or a work of fiction that you're currently writing?

Writer's Block is aimed at people who are creating their own works of fiction. If you're just asking about the trope itself and using it on the wiki, you want Trope Talk.

Technically, both. But I think I need to apply it in my fanfic atm.....

The lack of detail and focus on the trope definition in your post, and the fact that people have come here before asking for help with writing for the wiki left your intent unclear.

I think that case could qualify for the trope depending on context, or not, and depending on the needs of your story, using the trope could be a good thing, a bad thing, or just an "it's there" thing. There's all kinds of events and messages that could lead up to your case counting for the trope or not, and even the specific wording of the dialogue and portrayal of events could make it 'not Anvilicious', 'good Anvilicious', 'bad Anvilicious', or 'meh Anvilicious'- it also says right on the trope page that the trope is based in opinion.

The fact that you're saying you might need to apply it tells me that you haven't written the part you're asking about yet. In that case, the most productive thing you can do is write it and get some critique. Worrying about the execution of tropes in stuff you haven't written yet is an exercise in futility, and I'm speaking from experience.

Thanks for your support

From what I see in it's example, I thought it's a Pet-Peeve Trope/something that must be avoided at all cost. So, I'll try to get help......

edited 25th May '17 6:13:14 PM by SeekerSS

Anvilicious isn't ALWAYS bad—Some Anvils Need to Be Dropped, after all.

The TRS thread doesn't know either. The distinction between Some Anvils Need to Be Dropped and Anvilicious is that fuzzy. They're nearly the same. Check out the thread here.

As far as I see it, the difference is fairly easy to get. Anvilicious works are those which use an aesop (or more of them) very bluntly, to the point where it's like dropping an anvil on someone; simply put, the make it blatantly obvious that there is an aesop being dropped. Works which feature Some Anvils Need to Be Dropped, on the other hand, are works in which the need for an aesop is blatantly obvious and the need is fulfilled.

Now, those tropes are not interchangeable, not by a longshot. There is, however, something of a correlation there: if some anvils indeed have to be dropped then it may not be a bad idea to make the act of dropping them blatant so that it would not be missed by the readers, and likewise if the author made their aesop more blatant than they thought it to be they might try to justify it by making it in some way necessary. If you show a blatant need of an aesop and then show the aesop itself subtly then you risk your audience not expecting the subtle thing to be an aesop and thinking that you forgot about it completely; and on the other hand, if you show a blatant aesop itself but no need for it to be there then you can get readers thinking that the aesop is some kind of obsession for you rather than something that actually makes sense in the story.

That said, who bloody cares? Just write your work instead of focusing on adding tropes as if they were a checklist to add and/or avoid. When you start thinking primarily about tropes rather than about your work's plot and whatever else there is to it, is the very moment when you fail. Just write the work normally and that's it, if you happen to write an aesop into it at some point then it will happen and if not then it will not.

Sorry, I just see many negativity in it, that if my story have it, I afraid my story will become second coming of Gundam Seed Destiny; no matter how well written my story is.....

edited 26th May '17 6:08:34 AM by SeekerSS

That depends on how well you write it. But you'll never know unless you try. If it worries you that much, that's what critique and alpha/beta readers are for.

~Kazeto: That's an argument to bring up in the TRS thread. There's, like, nearly a dozen people trying to figure out the differences between those tropes and so far it seems like the main difference is that one is "done poorly" and the other is "done well."

RE: Seeker SS: I suggest finishing the story first, and then revising it with the help of critiques and the like. Try not to hold yourself back too much.

& I'll do it later....

Thanks everyone

edited 27th May '17 7:34:07 PM by SeekerSS

Generally, "anvillicious" means a message that draws a lot of attention to itself and presents the issue in black-and-white terms.

For example, Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged portrays altruists as generally being extremely evil and makes it a point to have a giant Author Fillibuster where the author explains her philosophy.

Left Behind is also good example, where groups of people that the author disagrees with are shown as both being cartoonishly evil and all united and devoted almost solely to the causes of destroying Christianity and kicking puppies.

Avatar is a third good example, where it declares that Humans Are Bastards (except for a few people) and it portrays its environmentalism and anti-imperialism in very black-and-white terms. The Na'vi are portrayed as enlightened Noble Savages and the RDA as almost entirely (very) Corrupt Corporate Executives that would kick toddlers to make a buck.

However, some issues are actually pretty black and white. For example: human trafficking is really bad, and anyone who disagrees with that is almost certainly a giant douchebag. Same principle applies to the openly racist. Since most people already strongly loathe Nazis, I'm not really alienating anyone when I portray them as pure evil.

edited 26th May '17 12:55:55 PM by Protagonist506

Like a lot of other things, whether something is Anvilicious or Some Anvils Need to Be Dropped is going to largely depend on your own values and political sympathies.

Someone who doesn't feel very strongly about an issue might find it bothersome to have a message about it flat out stated to them regardless of how subtle or blunt it is, while someone who feels very strongly about it and thinks that the message needs to be out there might not care as much about being blunt.

Of course, it's not exactly that simple since you can agree with a message but despise the case the work makes for it or the overall execution, but like any other aspect of fiction there'll never be something that pleases everyone.

So, only ignore Anvilicious criticism that are destructive to my fic?

So just write what you want to write and ignore the whole trope, unless you want your work to become fertiliser which is very possible if you fixate on something as irrelevant as it is that badly.

edited 22nd Jun '17 2:12:26 PM by Kazeto

Okay, thanks