Why are anime and manga so niche in America?

Crunchyroll is extremely new really and the 'anime boom' in the US was about Shōnen and mecha works only, Sailor Moon being really the lone exception while still being hacked up. In France and Italy they got everything from Kodomomuke on up, usually not extremely censored as broadcast values line up better than the prudes in NA.

In the US Kodomomuke shows are absolutely unheard until recently aside from Pokemon, even now those shows aside from Pokemon are massively hacked up and nigh unwatchable to the point its not even the same damn show.

And Seinen / Josei shows have just never aired on TV in the US. When the likes of Kiniro Mosaic, Castle Town Dandelion or Chihayafuru air on cable in the US then we can talk about not being niche.

Also Crunchyroll isn't really something you would watch with your family really like being dubbed on cable TV and that is the place where exposure needs to happen to move anime in general. To do that you really gotta have a toy line to back up the series but Bandai bungled that up.

edited 19th Jan '17 8:59:39 AM by Memers

If I'm reading him right, he's not saying it's the same. He's saying that without the cultural grounding for it, American's don't have the perception of it as a true medium, but rather have a skewed, flippant idea of what it is.

Compare, say, Disney. People give Disney a hard time for being "for kids," or for being traditionalist, and so on, but they're also immediately accepted as something you can watch and will watch if you want a certain type of experience. And that's because there's eighty years of history that has shaped American perception of the brand as being an integral, classic element of American entertainment. You walk into a Disney movie knowing what it's about - Snow White and Frozen are not the same by any means, but that's not the point.

Or Batman. Everyone knows Batman. You had a Batman. Your parents had a Batman. Your grandparents had a Batman. Maybe even your great grandparents had a Batman. All of those Batmen are entirely different portrayals of the character, but they've all ingrained the character in the public consciousness. Nobody's going to think less of a person for knowing all about Batman and his rogues gallery in the current age. In fact, it's encouraged.

Gag series like Looney Tunes and chintzy action comedies like sitcoms have shaped American humor. Pick a music style with a long run, and it's still present in some form today. Etc. People homage these things without cognitive dissonance, or fear of being considered odd for doing so.

Anime and Manga don't have that presence, and Aldo is right to say that it would had it gotten a stronger introduction earlier. That's just the way cultural perception works. Anything is going to look like a fad when it first comes out, and it's up to the people handling its exposure to ensure that doesn't stick. If they screw it up, it takes a long time (or a good release) for that medium to recover in the public eye.

edited 19th Jan '17 8:58:33 AM by KnownUnknown

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

Even Yokai Watch? Apparently aside from the name and locale changes it's pretty faithful?

Considering the popularity of many Netflix original series, I question the notion that anime "needs" to be on TV to gain exposure.

It's one thing to make a spectacle. It's another to make a difference.

In Japan the big analog would be Doraemon. every kid in Japan has been watching it since 1979, its a 2000 episodes and still going strong.

It didnt make it to the US till last year when Disney XD got it and hacked up to a poor reception.

edited 19th Jan '17 9:10:55 AM by Memers

That's pretty much the idea.

Anime has always been on American TV in some way since the days of Astro Boy and Kimba and Speed Racer but it did not become a thing to the wider American public until Pokemon became a gigantic hit.

And, as I mentioned earlier, people thought it was all a fad and nobody did anything to fix that perception.

If anime had become a thing to the wider American public ten or twenty years earlier, I wonder how our perception would have been different.

Still, at least we got it at all. We could easily have not got it.

edited 19th Jan '17 9:14:36 AM by Aldo930

"They say I'm old fashioned, and live in the past, but sometimes I think progress progresses too fast."

Again, Love Live. Aired on a cable channel either last year or the year before. Even if the channel itself is a little obscure, cable TV is cable TV, and considering its subject matter (idols), this should never have happened.

How early are we talking? If we're talking '80s, everyone would've just thought it was all mecha and high school stuff... kinda like now. '70s? Same thing, probably.

Also, I have to ask again, even if most people do think anime is/was just a fad, so what? Why does this matter at all? Hell, I'd even argue we should be glad it's still as niche as it is; if it were any more popular it'd be put under even more scrutiny (see: dubstep).

edited 19th Jan '17 9:19:14 AM by PhysicalStamina

It's one thing to make a spectacle. It's another to make a difference.

Honestly, a lot of it has to do with both the Animation Age Ghetto and Piracy.

Kids Networks are actually pretty fickle with giving air time to animated works with continuing narratives. It's why even the more popular cartoons in recent years (Steven Universe, Gravity Falls, Adventure Time, Avatar) were still mostly episodic and fillery.

That and, when you break it down, when the US had the recession in the late 2000s anime fans in mass turned to pirating the shows online. It's not a coincidence that Naruto was arguably the last anime to actually have a major broadcasting presence an crossed over into pop-culture in the West.

That said, I wouldn't say Anime is terribly niche. If anything, it's been growing in more mainstream popularity thanks to streaming. It's why shows like Attack On Titan, One Punch Man, and Yuri on Ice became such big phenomenons online.

define People.

As TV dies off and online streaming goes up, a different medium will be needed. Crunchyroll, Daisuki and the like are perfect platforms going forward. Anime conventions continue to increase in size every year, and Toonami still does well for itself in spite of being on a dying medium.

And Families aren't the only people who watch anime in Japan. All age groups, from children to adults have series that they can watch.

Re Zero and SAO can be put into that same bracket.

edited 19th Jan '17 9:18:06 AM by Demongodofchaos2

Watch Symphogear

The general public.

This.

edited 19th Jan '17 9:24:06 AM by PhysicalStamina

It's one thing to make a spectacle. It's another to make a difference.

said cable channel was an extremely obscure Kpop channel that didn't even broadcast in HD. And said channel never even bothered to change its listings to announce that they were even airing the thing.

Everything else has been just action series, which has formed its own ghetto really. People just know edited kids shows, Pokémon and Shonen fighting series. Even the comedy of drama series that get dubs don't actually make it on TV or even Netflix. B Gata H Kei was the lone exception to making it on Netflix and it didn't last long.

When K On makes on the US Disney channel like it did in Japan then maybe we can talk.

Edit: A vast majority of people will not watch subs as well, Crunchyroll may have a following but it is small compared to everything else.

edited 19th Jan '17 9:32:26 AM by Memers

---

Apparently I have never met this vast, dub-preferring majority, then.

And again, airing on TV is not the end-all, be-all of what makes a successful show. Jessica Jones, for example, was highly praised even though it's Netflix original.

edited 19th Jan '17 9:34:20 AM by PhysicalStamina

It's one thing to make a spectacle. It's another to make a difference.

What's it matter if something was on cable if it's on a channel most people have never heard of?

And yes, many people do not like to read subtitles to be able to understand a show.

"They say I'm old fashioned, and live in the past, but sometimes I think progress progresses too fast."

Ok yay it made it on a crappy non-hd station that only .01% of the people in the US even have... yay... it looked and sounded like an old VHS tape, that's going to make anime not niche!

But seriously B Gata H Kei being on Netflix for a while is literally the only non-action non-kids series to ever be broadcast in any place that gives it exposure... the oddest series to choose do that really.

edited 19th Jan '17 9:56:28 AM by Memers

Look, you said cable TV, I gave a cable TV example. You never specified a channel everyone's heard of, so don't get all smart.

And Yokai Watch is on Netflix too, unless that somehow counts as an action series.

EDIT: Wait, non-kids. Well, Silver Spoon is on Netflix, and I doubt I'm in for an action-packed thriller with that show.

edited 19th Jan '17 10:21:33 AM by PhysicalStamina

It's one thing to make a spectacle. It's another to make a difference.

The Arakawa one?

Where there's life, there's hope.

That one.

It's one thing to make a spectacle. It's another to make a difference.

Knights of Sidonia and Re:Zero are very adult series that are on netflix

Watch Symphogear

He said "non-action" too.

It's one thing to make a spectacle. It's another to make a difference.

It doesn't matter.

Trying to specify that just comes across as trying to be over specific.

Watch Symphogear

In terms of animes they cover the whole spectrum of genres. The US ghetto is really only action shows are known or even gain exposure.

Rom Com Slice of Life etc don't really exist outside of the small anime fandoms. Even those that got dubs in the anime boom like Azumanga Daioh or Love Hina did not air on TV and such. No one seems to bother with any of them except B Gata H Kei for some ungodly reason.

Shows like New Game or Chihaiyafuru are never going to air anywhere cause they fall outside of the one thing that isn't really niche, shonen or shonen style action. Once these do then anime in general might be moving away from being niche.

To go back to the whole Europe has it better topic. Meanwhile in places like Italy stuff gets aired all the time and if it's got Magical Girl in it anywhere it's pretty much a huge hit.

edited 19th Jan '17 11:16:51 AM by Memers

I don't see why every single genre of anime ever has to gain mainstream exposure before anime can stop being niche.

As an aside, Love Hina kinda suuuuucks.

It's one thing to make a spectacle. It's another to make a difference.

Outside of shonen the rest of anime is extremely niche.

And I only used the Love Hina anime as an example, I know it sucks but it got a dub during the Anime Boom. Lucky Star instead then.

And thus this thread turned into the bash Love Hina thread, yay another one... go troll somewhere else please maybe the Love Hina thread so you can be on topic.

edited 19th Jan '17 11:26:37 AM by Memers

forgot the Not Sorry in there. Though attacking the author is kinda immature.

Either way, crunchyroll had a record year last year, and the fact that it keeps growing shows that people not wanting to just watch subtitles is complete bullocks.

Considering the series set the standards about everything wrong in most harem stories nowadays, can you blame them?

edited 19th Jan '17 11:28:01 AM by Demongodofchaos2

Watch Symphogear