Metal Gear Survive; 4-player co-op stealth game

Nope. GTA V was arguably the most expensive game ever created, save for maybe Destiny's marketing campaign. Not sure about the Call of Duty franchise titles though, but I'd imagine the later titles like from Modern Warfare 2 onwards having insane development and marketing costs.

Why wait?

They're going bananas already!!

Basically, anything Konami does... nothing is going to win the approval of fans.

Except this one act, I reckon:

Make a public apology for the gamers, stop their draconic acts, and then abandon the Pachinko and Mobile business venture while going back to the video game business. Wait, you might be asking, 'But that would take us to the grave financially, we're gonna go bankrupt!'... You wanna know the answer? "Who cares! We will die for the video game fans, it's Worth It!"

I understand that Konami's really shit right now and I won't support them yet. But... I feel that this is the only way the controversy will stop, and in the same time, painting the fans to be completely entitled bastards who wants to see producers, honest or not, go bankrupt and then die off because of their unpleasability.

Pick your poison.

TBH, between Ac!d and Snake Tales painting a place for dimension-hopping, the whole AU aspect is not the turn-off for me, it's the visible me-too Resident Evil wannabeism.

Wanna bet Dr. Koppelthorn will make an inevitable appearance?

As has been stated before, Konami ain't gonna back off from their decision and make such a drastic change. Remember, their other divisions (not even including Pachinko) are generally far more profitable and in some cases more extensive. So them cutting down the game development into what it is today is pure business pragmatism.

Alternate universes, portals, zombies... I can't wait to see how Konami will justify this blatantly magical/alien/whatever bullshit and claim it ties into the rest of the franchise (assuming they'll even acknowledge it as canon afterwords - I suspect it'll be regulated to the sector of "oddball spin-off that will never be seriously referenced again").

We all knew that Metal Gear wouldn't be the same without Kojima, but... holy shit.

Vocal chord parasites. Poisonous Zanzibar hamsters. Infinite ammo. Possession by a ghost via transplanted arm. Need I list more?

@Ricko: I wasn't expecting them to change. I mean, in the end, they are just trying to survive.

But because of that, the fandom will not let up on them, they won't understand the need of survival. They just want their department, the game department, be treated as the King above all else. So that's why I think the only way for them to be 'forgiven' is to act against pragmatism and then care solely for the video game department even if it takes them to their grave.

Probably I can say that for Konami, the fandom's total gratitude and forgiveness are either not top priority or just not worth it. I mean, what good will it be if you get all those and then you DIE?

This is why I said fandom can be so entitled and indirectly be just as bad as the party they bashed. Or softly saying, the fandom is being disgustingly Yandere.

edited 18th Aug '16 7:51:22 PM by ChrisX

It's so weird reading that.

I mean, technically it's true but, the Snakes are all different characters. It comes off like an insult but it really isn't.

I don't suppose anyone is going to wait until we see some game-play footage, or more information is released before condemning Konami to the seventh level of Gaming Developer Hell?

I do want to point out that Konami is an old-school hard-core Japanese company. There are some cultural aspects that are common place here that are lawsuit bait in the states. My wife for example, has been unable to get a job as an accountant because she is "too old". She's only 46.

Kojima is a real unique sort of dude. The relationship between the New and Crazy (Kojima) and the Old and Safe (Konami) could only end in tears. This is a company where you can still fire someone because they are an affront to your ego.

It might not be right, but it isn't illegal over here. At least, not that I've seen.

That can be understandable, while I think Konami's business practice is just outrageous for my tastes that I can't support it, I can understand where they come from. But the wrath of scorned fans will not take cultural position in account, all they care about is that they have been wronged, they demand retribution THEIR WAY and the only way of forgiveness is THEIR WAY only.

That's just how I see fanbase rolls out. Konami being an old-school hardcore Japanese company? Cute. But that will not matter when fandom demands 'justice' and 'retribution' over what they perceived as a slight against them.

edited 18th Aug '16 9:02:10 PM by ChrisX

@Chris X

I get where you're coming from, and I swear I'm not trying to get you riled up. I'm just telling you what I know from living over here for so long. I'm not trying to say you're wrong at all, I'm just offering up information you might know about.

It's not just Konami. Most Japanese companies over here do the same thing. I'm not sure why the Nikkei Weekly decided to do a piece on Konami, but it was probably due to the laws around Pachinko starting to change, and Konami is one of the biggest Pachinko makers in Japan.

I'm pretty sure they started kicking over a few rocks and finding there were some less than ideal working conditions, and digging a bit more...well, you've probably read the article.

Point is, it's not an uncommon or even Draconian practice over here. It's common place. They also have terrible mental health service. And they still hire women based on how good-looking they look (not all, but there's more than a few).

I understand and appreciate you're not trying to rile me up. More information is good for me, so thanks. You, being the more understanding people who knows what it's like there, it's a good thing and I understand that sometimes even the Japanese like to poke fun at this kind of lifestyle and stating it to be corrupt.

But in the eyes of the more 'enthusiastic' and common gamers... I'm sorry, but they're not going to understand you. I've witnessed and concluded that all they care about is whether they get what they want, in the form they want or consider passable, or not. So they might not even care about how hard it is to work there, if you slight their ego and tastes, they will demand retribution, probably as harsh as possible, while not even giving a crap about your company's welfare. They like to see things as simple as possible, all those cultural stuffs are things considered to be 'complicating things, therefore, we don't give a damn.'.

If anything, I'm not admonishing you. But I'm more or less saying that the fandom can really use LESS entitlement feelings and demanding the companies like their personal slaves.

(This also has something to do with the culture about how news media so far thinks that it's more EXCITING to make news about when a company do bad things. If a company does good or heartwarming things, no way in hell it'll make it to the news. I mean, when do we ever get news about "I work in this company and it's wonderful. No really, this isn't even propaganda or people coercing me in. I just LOVE it and everyone's really being wonderful to me."?)

edited 18th Aug '16 10:10:57 PM by ChrisX

Even without mentioning Kojima, there are things that Konami has done that have made people feel justified in wanting to see them burn. Screwing over the Castlevania series by rebooting it into a God of War clone, trying to completely erase evidence of PT's existence after suddenly cancelling Silent Hills, leaving most of their other classic video game franchises to rot, doing almost nothing with Hudson Soft's library after their 2012 purchase of the company, focusing heavily on cheap mobile cash-ins and thinly disguised gambling products rather than games that aren't meant for whales, employing questionable business practices even by Japanese standards, confining even the potentially good mobile games to Japan, essentially leaving the gaming industry because their entire games outfit was making slightly less than half their total profit and their pachinko outfit was growing slightly...

With all the stuff that's gone down, it makes sense that their former fans have been hurt by how Konami has treated them and that they're going to refuse the initial attempt at trying to win back the crowd. I bet people would have been pissed even if Konami had made literally all of their hopes and dreams come true with this game, but a seeming Call of Duty Zombies clone with a decaying Metal Gear Solid V skin, flimsy justification even by Kojima standards, and a prerendered announcement trailer filled with reused content from MGSV? That would have gotten some fire even in the glory days of the series, but as things are now, the reaction to it has been apocalyptic.

edited 18th Aug '16 10:51:24 PM by DragonGeyser

I wouldn't call MG Survive their attempt to Win Back the Crowd, but more like digging themselves further, confining to what they consider 'safe practice' by focusing on Japanese mobile or pachinko market and all those shitty shenanigans. In the end, while their acts are questionable, it's also quite understandable considering the situation of Japan's economy.

However, what I'm getting at is that the fans, especially the justifiably hurt fans, will not care for that. The only way for Konami to win them back is to:

• Show themselves to be retracting those questionable business methods and treat their employees properly.
• Abandon the pachinko/mobile business and get back to video gaming business... and go back to the old formulas that these fans came to love.
• Do the two points above without care if it will lead them to the financial grave, with them not making profits when there are bigger markets and leading them to bankruptcy. Dying for the video game fans is something worth doing.

Do all those, and that's when I realize that they were trying to win back the video game fans.

Confirm this to be true or false: If Konami does things that would be called so unpragmatic, but all for the sake of the fans, even if they make losses and losses to the point they're going bankrupt (but the games they make hit the spot)... will the fans even forgive their transgressions? At this point, sometimes I doubt it, but it's the only thing that has a semblance chance of them recovering.

In the end, when both options has shit outcomes, it's no wonder Konami decided to do it the 'safe way'.

edited 18th Aug '16 11:18:46 PM by ChrisX

It's one of those things with Konami that no matter how much good they do from here on out, they just need to screw up one more time to send the fans reeling back into Huffy-Pants.

They could make a phenomenal game with Metal Gear Survive, but if they dare mention micro-transactions, there will be a holy war.

I don't think the micro-transaction thing is Konami exclusive. I mean, that's kinda what DLC is. When Capcom did that, fandom picks up their pitchforks and then started their companyhunt.

This is why I say fandom is entitled and indirectly just as bad. They are disgustingly unpleasable. Let me see an example after this date where a company was like "All right, we'll use microtransaction"... and nobody complains about it. I dare you, fandom!

Come on, there's no need to demonize fandom in general. I know that you're upset by the behavior of the two camps, but saying that they're just as bad as the company is overlooking too much. This is a matter of Human behavior and given the recent times, the concern for the healthy state of ourselves is heavily debated and scorn in regards to a group's handling of something in a negative way can put the common people in a wrong way. That's why they are so upset with Konami, because they don't respect enough Human rights.

The more you see the fandom being the whiny and never be pleasable... This is what it does to you. After too much seeing people just defaulting to complaining and whining when things don't go their way, I just have a bitter taste towards 'fandom' in general, and becoming disillusioned with them.

Granted, I'll give it that in the Konami case, the company is ALSO shit and making things worse. But from what I learned, even companies and producers need to be selective in choosing their customers, to prefer those who can be agreeable and make both ends run smoothly, instead of one who continue to whine whine and whine no matter how hard you try and acting like the creator is their slave. So, companies like EA or Capcom or Blizzard can be 'demonized' when they weren't doing anything ethically wrong (please note that I don't include Konami here), but not the fandom?

I'd like to just remind that just because the customer is king, doesn't mean that it's right and ethical to become a complete tyrant. I believe that customers should strive to be the The Good King, instead of the evil tyrant.

And that's why I mentioned 'the only way for them to even forgive Konami... if that shitty company actually tries' (they're not even trying at this moment). Also not to mention, EA has been experiencing that BEFORE the whole Konami shitstorm.

edited 19th Aug '16 6:22:06 AM by ChrisX

You're overestimating the empathy of video game fandoms. They don't care about human rights or work conditions.

How many times was EA voted worst company despite the fact that there are objectify even worse companies than them?

edited 19th Aug '16 6:20:31 AM by NoName999

Name one fandom.

Why Metal Gear Survive is the safest of Konami's potentially bad decisions and 6 riskier alternatives.

@ Chris X: You're making arguments so valid, I'm not even sure what should we really do.

Should we just pretend that Konami's dead and not talk about them in the hopes that they wither away for real, keep praying that someone buys Konami and its IPs and fires the heads while giving them restraining orders that certifies that they never get near the Konami HQ or get any jobs whatsoever because they're that unforgivably hurtful or wait until some other anything does a much deserved Take That! regarding Konami's antics because God knows that subject is still ripe now as it was when it started? (When's my "Konami Sucks" episode of South Park going to come up, Mr. Parker and Mr. Stone?)

In any case, Metal Gear Survive does allow us international fans to do the one thing we couldn't do because their pachinko machines were exclusive to Japan (and for all I know, the Japanese fanbase isn't going as ballistic about all this as we are):    boycott their product and make sure no one else becomes sheep and buy it themselves.   

Basically my take. I wouldn't put it past Kojima to throw wormholes in a spinoff just to fuck with people. It's the more generic elements that have Konami's stench all over it.

On the Konami front, it's true that fandoms can blow things out of proportion, but the Konami backlash is a case that I feel is fully justified. Sure, Konami's overall shift in focus makes business sense, but they've gone about it in the worst way possible, essentially torching all their bridges while flipping everyone the birds (especially awkward now that it seems the pachinko scene isn't rolling them all the money like they expected). And sure, most of the people angry with them probably don't care that much on the whole work rights aspect, but it is another layer on top of years of built-up anger and distrust.

The best-case scenario would be a complete funneling out of the upper management, since that's where all the problems are, but since that most definitely won't happen the next course would be not only an acknowledgement and apology for their more recent actions but a commitment over years into trying to rebuild a trust that is at the very least scarred, if not totally unsalvageable.

At least Nintendo can still be trusted...

You're assuming there will even be a "canon afterwards". I doubt it's a coincidence that the first Metal Gear title announced since Hideo Kojima's departure is as unlike Metal Gear as possible.

The biggest point of Kontention between Konami and Kojima has always been the fact that Konami thinks the Metal Gear brand is more important than any particular writer, producer, director, etc. who worked on it. They value the IP above creators.

Konami probably doesn't see this as an oddball title. They're flexing their philosophy: "We can slap the Metal Gear name on anything and it will sell like hotcakes because people are here for the Metal Gear brand." Since Kojima's departure, they've already done Metal Gear Pachinko and now they're doing Metal Gear Zombies. With Kojima's control over the franchise gone, I think we can safely expect more of these awkward "Some Other Thing With Metal Gear Name Slapped On It" ideas in the future.

The likelihood of ever again seeing a true Metal Gear Solid - one with the same kind of mechanics, themes, familiar characters, gameplay, etc. - is basically nil. They might start licensing it to studios like they did with the Silent Hill series, but that's about as close as it's ever likely to get.

But on the plus side, when they run out of ideas for ways to cash in on the brand name, they'll probably come back around to doing HD collections for MGS 1-5.

edited 19th Aug '16 9:43:00 AM by TobiasDrake