Duplicate Trope: Refugee From TV Land

You said, "Looney Tunes isn't a show within a show." If it isn't a show within Space Jam, then Jordan doesn't see them as fictional characters. (He doesn't after training them, but all of the "real life" characters see them as fictional at first.)

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

I arguing over this one example helping?

Or...could it help down the road with describing the distinction between the tropes?

No, I said in my eyes they don't count as a show within a show because they're REAL, pre-existing characters that the work is centered around.

I take Refugee from TV Land to mean the cast of a fictional Show Within a Show like Itchy and Scratchy.

-_- Your lying eyes deceive you; nothing within the definition of Show Within a Show precludes their inclusion. -_-

Please note the opening paragraph: A fictional show that takes place within an actual show; or, occasionally, a fictional installment or incarnation of an actual show. When Jordan changes the channel to a 1952 Roadrunner cartoon for his kids to watch, a 1996 Porky Pig appears, saying it has to be stopped. The kids wonder where the characters went. Immediately after this, in Looney Tune Land of the films, Wile E. Coyote arrives at the town hall, somehow arriving from said televised cartoon.

That's a fictional installment/incarnation of a televised show.

edited 15th Mar '17 12:09:40 PM by crazysamaritan

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Fictional Show means "not real", as in the writers made it up as background flavor for the actual shows world. '

Once again, like Itchy and Scratchy.

I'd say we need to look into Show Within a Show for suffering Trope Decay if real shows crept into the definition at some point.

edited 15th Mar '17 12:20:20 PM by shoboni

Can you read it now?

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Like I say that, that being there might constitute trope decay because it turns a valid trope of "fictional work with a work" into "any time a piece of media is mentioned"

There's no reason for it to include anything related to real works outside of parodies or expies.

edited 15th Mar '17 12:58:38 PM by shoboni

Then find me the "Roadrunner" cartoon where Porky Pig appears, telling them about the emergency meeting.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

The option of clarifying descriptions is significantly high in the crowner.

Now, how do we make the distinctions? I think this would make them still not distinct enough, but just in case:

• Refugee from TV Land is where a character from a Show Within a Show^note whether a completely fictional show, or a real show that the "main show" thinks as fictional in their universe jumps into the "main show". The main show in this case is not supposed to be close to our real world.
• Real-World Episode is whenever the show takes a realistic bent for one episode. Whether by having the characters in a Show Within a Show jumping into the "main show" (making it overlap with the above), or making them jump into a world that "contains" the show all along (making it overlap with Nested Story Reveal), making it a special, usually out-of-continuity episode where the world turns into something resembling a real world, or somebody warping reality to achieve it. Oh, and it only lasts for an episode.

We don't need justice when we can forgive. We don't need tolerance when we can love.

Yeah, I'm gonna say no to the part where you say "by having the characters in a Show Within a Show jumping into the "main show" (making it overlap with the above)". That would be Refugee, not Episode.

And it shouldn't be "takes a realistic bent". That's too broad. Episode really requires the opposite of Show Within a Show.

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.

If you say Rea World Episode is none of what I said, then what? Have my understanding of it been wrong all along?

We don't need justice when we can forgive. We don't need tolerance when we can love.

I'm only objecting to the parts I specifically objected to. The parts I didn't object to are more-or-less fine.

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.

We have two tropes in which a character enters a world in which they are fictional, plus one in which a character enters a world that is fictional to them. How do we distinguish these tropes? Getta's proposal looks good, but it can be simplified by simply asking a question: what is being seen as fictional?

• If the world is the element seen as fictional, it's Trapped in TV Land. (Example: the various My Little Pony human-in-Equestria fanfics.)
• If the characters are the element seen as fictional, we need further distinction.
  • If it is a one-episode or one-arc plot and is set in a world representative of our own world, it's Real-World Episode. (Example: the Supernatural episode "The French Mistake")
  • If it's a longer plot or is set in a world not representative of our own world, it's Refugee from TV Land.

It's also important to note here that these tropes are plot tropes, not character tropes. If a character is from a Show Within a Show but that fact is not relevant to the plot, it doesn't go in any of these tropes.

---

Example: The RWBY fanfic Emergence has the main characters of RWBY ending up in a representative of "our own world", in which they are fictional characters. It clearly belongs in one of the three tropes, and my proposal is clearer as to where it goes. The characters are seen as fictional, and it's a work-long plot, so it goes in RFTVL.

I had a dog-themed avatar before it was cool.

That would be a definition change, not a clarification of the current distinction.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Would my descriptions suffice?

We don't need justice when we can forgive. We don't need tolerance when we can love.

No, because those are not the current distinctions. You also proposed a definition change. The distinction between the tropes are listed on the first page; the crowner has authorized cleaning the description to clarify those definitions.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

So, what are the definitions? I don't want any confusion before the cleanup starts.

I had a dog-themed avatar before it was cool.

In short, Real-World Episode means "it's a Show Within a Show all along", right?

Subtrope of Nested Story Reveal?

We don't need justice when we can forgive. We don't need tolerance when we can love.

~Getta, you said this from Page One of this thread:

The two pages dispute that analysis. "Welcome To The Real World" and "a character is pulled or travels from literature or screen into the real world" are on opposite pages. So the "Show X" is Like Reality, Unless Noted and doesn't affect which trope is in play.

The distinction, as presented by Real-World Episode is "In Refugee from TV Land, a character is pulled out of a Show Within a Show, whereas a Real World Episode concerns characters the viewers have been following for some time prior to this, and no indication had yet been given that they were in fact fictional (other than the fact that they, y'know, exist in a TV series, movie, book, comic, or video game)."

That distinction is not present on Refugee from TV Land, and the opening paragraph directly contradicts the distinction by implying that these characters have been followed by the viewers for some time prior to this, and no indication had yet been given that they were in fact fictional.

That's the distinction we already have, and it's why I've been saying, repeatedly, that we don't have enough of a distinction between the two tropes. I'm unable to comprehend why we are discussing new distinctions when the crowner had no such option.

I propose the crowner is invalid because there's been more discussion on what the new definitions should be than on how to clarify the descriptions.

edited 22nd May '17 8:29:35 AM by crazysamaritan

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Guess that people have different ideas on what "clarifying" means.

"and it's why I've been saying, repeatedly, that we don't have enough of a distinction between the two tropes." And perhaps that's why we're making new definitions?

We don't need justice when we can forgive. We don't need tolerance when we can love.

Bump.

So what are those definitions, anyway? Since we're already here, we might as well define them better.

I had a dog-themed avatar before it was cool.

Sandboxes based on the existing definitions are done. Next step is sorting through the examples.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

This morning when I first saw this thread i asked myself, how is Back to Gaya neither on refugee from tv land nor in real world episode? But then I couldn't even remember the name of the movie and I had to spend hours looking for it...

And, in my opinion, it would be better to place it on refugee fron tv land; here's why, just by reading the tittle of the tropes I get the impression that:

1. refugee from tv land is when itchy and scratchy meet the simpsons, or when characters of a show within a show enter the world of the main show (wich doesn't necesarly have to be similar to our own)

2. real world episode is like when homer came to the real world, or when characters of a show enter a world that's mean to be our own

but then again, that isn't enough, is it? because back to gaya can easily fit the two descriptions (until the point where a mad scientist can make tings on tv become real) just like space jam or enchanted can,

so I guess the problem is that I forgot to add one detail, for it to be refugee from tv land, for me, the show within a show can't be a real life show franchise, but it has to be a fictional one

by that standart back to gaya and enchanted are refugees from tv land, while space jam and the rocky and bullwinkle movie are real world episodes

it is a pretty random standart, but it works to differentiate both tropes

the only problen would be in cases like crossovers between two real life show that are mutually fictional inside their own worlds or if someone decides to make a movie about looney tunes being a show within a steampunk or fantasy world...

Is there any case where "fictional" characters enter a "real" world that wouldn't hit one of the two tropes?

I had a dog-themed avatar before it was cool.