Follow TV Tropes

Following

Humanizing A Religious Bigot?

Go To

Swordofknowledge from I like it here... (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#1: Apr 15th 2016 at 11:26:14 PM

Not the best title, but it accurately summarizes a dilemma I'm running into while trying to write a story. In the tale, a unit of knights is part of an Order fighting against a God of Evil. One of the members—-we'll call him Hale—-has a wife and a young son in the single digits in terms of age. She is already wary of him being on the front lines of this war and has expressed her concern several times, but is proud of him due to being a devout worshiper of the Crystal Dragon Jesus that opposes this evil god.

Now the problem: One of the main characters turns out to be a "fragment" of the evil god and this causes all sorts of problems. When this becomes widely known to the populace, his wife demands that Hale leaves the unit and either retires or joins another team of knights. However his team—the "fragment of the evil god" character included—are a Band of Brothers who have been through unimaginable horrors and battles together, including a civil war and near-total regime change. Hale respectfully tells her that he can't just leave them after all he's been through with his comrades together and begs her to understand where he's coming from. He cares about all of them.

Her response is to declare that he's been "tainted" by the evil god, and to leave him and take their young son away and tell him to never contact her again or enter their lives in any way shape or form.

Now this is understandbly a pretty Jerkass move, and it's meant to be. However I believe in telling my stories from a balanced "shades-of-gray" perspective most of the time. Heck, even my villains get their motivations and sympathetic moments explored, so how could I do less for Hale's wife? Her religion and fear is driving her, and I want to see if there's a way to make her at least less like a total bitch.

For anyone who's curious as to just what the evil god does that makes him evil, and if this will help. The religious authorities claim:

  • He created monsters that slaughtered most of the mortal races (elves, dwarves, humans, etc) and forced the remaining groups to shelter in an extremely enclosed area of land.

  • Whispers in people's minds and tempts them to acts of cruelty, chaos and anti-social behavior (sin in other words).

  • Is doing all of this out of childish jealousy because his twin brother the aforementioned Crystal Dragon Jesus is paying attention to the created world and ignoring him. So he just wants to destroy it to return his brother's attention to him.

There, I hope that helps.

Fear is a tyrant and a despot, more terrible than the rack, more potent than the snake. — Edgar Walllace
war877 Grr... <3 from Untamed Wilds Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Grr... <3
#2: Apr 16th 2016 at 12:39:52 AM

I already buy her motives. It is perfectly human to act according to your beliefs. If she feels she is protecting herself and more importantly her child from something dangerous, her breaking up is not only logical; it would be strange for something else to happen instead.

Fear overrides most concerns in most people, I think. It can overrule any logic that this is the wrong thing to do.

garridob My name's Ben. from South Korea Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
My name's Ben.
#3: Apr 16th 2016 at 2:06:55 AM

She just has to believe in essences. Also, her hubby is potentially being a jerk by putting his slaughter of evil career ahead of the family.

If you want to be really ironic, write it like a gender flipped version of the heartless feminist who ruins her family for her career.

Great men are almost never good men, they say. One wonders what philosopher of the good would value the impotence of his disciples.
Furienna from Örnsköldsvik, Sweden Since: Nov, 2013
#4: Apr 17th 2016 at 4:15:09 AM

I agree that Hale's wife already sounds sympathetic enough, when you think about the whole situation. You can of course have her reconcile with her husband later somehow, if you want to. But that is it.

edited 17th Apr '16 4:16:52 AM by Furienna

Nixterman Old Hickory from Yurop Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: In bed with a green-skinned space babe
Old Hickory
#5: Apr 19th 2016 at 7:15:12 AM

If you're asking me, the title of this conversation is a bit misleading. Yes, severing ties with your husband and the father of your child is drastic, but on the other hand, he's willingly associating with someone who is quite literally a (fragment of) god of evil. It's not as if her fear of this god of evil is irrational or rooted in hate, as with real-life religious bigotry. Rather, she is acting out of a need to protect her child and herself from an objective danger.

I think you might have identified with Hale a bit too much. To a dispassionate observer, the wife is in the right.

I'm a lawyer in real life. Yes, I do own a pair of bunny ears.
Swordofknowledge from I like it here... (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#6: Apr 19th 2016 at 5:12:37 PM

Thanks for all the responses!

@ Nixterman: I did think the title was a little...off, but "bigot" was basically the only word I could really think to describe Hale's wife. There were multiple reasons for the term; the character who is a fragment of the evil god is a heroine and indeed one of the two main characters and the wife's reaction to her husband refusing to leave his True Companions just seemed cruel and disproportionate and it was driven by her religious fear (even if it is objective). But maybe I was leaning too far to one side; I really was trying to get a balance between the two.

edited 19th Apr '16 5:13:15 PM by Swordofknowledge

Fear is a tyrant and a despot, more terrible than the rack, more potent than the snake. — Edgar Walllace
Nixterman Old Hickory from Yurop Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: In bed with a green-skinned space babe
Old Hickory
#7: Apr 20th 2016 at 1:02:52 AM

@Swordofknowledge, it doesn't really vibe like bigotry to me. Seems to me like there'd be pretty objective reasons to fear the God of Evil. Take a real-life example: many people fear and despise ISIS or the Westboro Baptist Church, but none of that fear and hate come from ISIS and the WBC being of a different religion. They come from these two groups being objective threats to safety and civilization. Now, I think you might want to examine what the wife knows and doesn't, as opposed to what Hale and the true companions (and you, being the creator of that work) know. Does Hale's wife know that the Evil God Fragment is a heroine and true companion? Does she realize the extent of her heroism? Does the wife believe that the heroic deeds of the Evil God Fragment absolve her of her state? Does she even believe that absolution is possible for a fragment of the Evil God? Can Hale understand his wife's reasoning process? Can Hale empathize with both of them, see both sides of the story and make a reasoned decision? Is Hale a bit too blinded by the True Companions nature of his order of knights? You're gonna have to answer some or all of these questions if you want to portray Hale's wife, Hale and Fragment Girl as well-rounded characters.

Whelp, I never said this writing thing is gonna be easy. :)

I'm a lawyer in real life. Yes, I do own a pair of bunny ears.
hellomoto Since: Sep, 2015
#8: Apr 20th 2016 at 5:54:53 AM

"Does Hale's wife know that the Evil God Fragment is a heroine and true companion?"

I would say this, but someone else said it first.

She knows the heroine is a literal fragment of Evil God, but does not have the omniscience of a writer literally writing every detail of the story. How would she know the heroine is good? Why would she believe anyone who says "oh she' literally a fragment of an incarnate of Evil, but she's a heroine totally"? Put your feet in the shoes of the character herself.

What is 'religious bigotry' in a world where gods are real and religion is as provable as science? Even if it wasn't, in a world were there's no modern science, most people believe in religion to be the truth, and Hale's wife has no reason to think otherwise, it's perfectly reasonable to run away from a FRAGMENT OF EVIL GOD.

edited 20th Apr '16 5:59:24 AM by hellomoto

Swordofknowledge from I like it here... (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#9: Apr 20th 2016 at 5:41:12 PM

[up] @Nixterman and hellomoto: both of you ask similar questions, so I'll try to answer them both with the same reply, so this is for both of you (and anyone else who may be following along, I guess).

Hale's wife does know about the fragment girl being a heroine—she's actually a pretty famous heroic figure within the kingdom they live in, since she saved an entire city's population from an invading army of The Heartless and by the time this is revealed, she's started to become at least partially a Hope Bringer to the populace. The revelation that she is a fragment of the god who supposedly created the monsters to begin with is shattering for a lot of people. Hale's wife is horrified that her husband has been serving in the same team with this "abomination".

The heroine herself is pretty devastated, since she was raised as an ordinary person, though she obviously isn't. She knows shes' strange but never thought about the reasons why. One of the lesser conflicts in the story is the reaction of the citizens to this information, especially since it comes at a time when the government has essentially been overthrown and replaced by the faction backed by the heroes (though that is a whole other story).

edited 20th Apr '16 5:41:47 PM by Swordofknowledge

Fear is a tyrant and a despot, more terrible than the rack, more potent than the snake. — Edgar Walllace
war877 Grr... <3 from Untamed Wilds Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Grr... <3
#10: Apr 20th 2016 at 10:43:47 PM

Even with all this new information, I stand by my original reply. Being a painfully logical person, I'd judge the shard hero by her actions, even running off the partial information Hale's wife probably has. But most people are not always rational. And this does not mean weakness in moral fibre. This is particularly true for people who are afraid of unlikely futures. What would you do to protect your daughter from a 0.01% chance of total economic collapse?

edited 20th Apr '16 10:46:19 PM by war877

Nixterman Old Hickory from Yurop Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: In bed with a green-skinned space babe
Old Hickory
#11: Apr 21st 2016 at 1:25:11 AM

Even a rational person might distrust a fragment of a god of evil who is nevertheless a heroic person. What if the god of evil has control of the heroine beyond her will? What if the heroine's heroism has been a clever ruse which has allowed the god of evil to infiltrate the upper echelons of society? What if Hale's wife believes her husband and the whole order have been tainted by association with the heroine?

Lots of what ifs, none of them related to bigotry. In fact, being a beloved hero of the good guys makes it even worse. Your heroine is not just a fragment of the evil god, but also a traitor in the eyes of the people.

But here opens another avenue for your plot. Is it possible that Hale's wife can gather like-minded people and start a schism in their religion. Some people could maintain that all evil can be redeemed, even a fragment of the god of evil, while others can argue that there are forms and extents of evil which can never be reformed, redeemed or expunged. For a real life example, consult Catholic vs. Protestant ideas on sin. The Catholic church maintains that all sins can be atoned for and forgiven, while certain Protestant denominations claim that there are extents of evil so deep that no redemption is possible.

I'm a lawyer in real life. Yes, I do own a pair of bunny ears.
hellomoto Since: Sep, 2015
#12: Apr 21st 2016 at 5:12:53 AM

Why do you want to portray her as a 'religious bigot', anyway?

Add Post

Total posts: 12
Top