Rename "You know, that thing where..."

The majority of long term tropers won't really need that to figure out what it is for, if we choose a name that reasonably reflects its purpose. That and use of YTTKW as a redirect to the new name will help that along.

edited 13th Feb '16 5:12:10 AM by TuefelHundenIV

^ This.

Regardless of the name selected, a rename seems necessary. As others have said, it is obfuscated. For years I had no idea what YKTTW was and even after investigating You Know That Trope Where, I still did not really understand. Of course back then, I had no account, so it didn't really matter. If this is the purpose of this discussion, I think the conclusion is obvious.

edited 12th Feb '16 5:48:09 PM by war877

Can the title of this thread be changed, if it hasn't already been decided that we're going with "Trope Builder"?

And if it has been decided, then what are we talking about it for? :/

Because to make such a massive change to the wiki, we want to keep the discussion going so more people can chime in.

It's only been a day since the discussion has started. At least give it a week. Though I am fairly certain the outcome won't change all that much.

I mean, why does the thread title specifically say "into Trope Builder"? We don't know it's gonna be called that yet, and the first impulse of anybody "chiming in" is gonna be to complain about the new name, as opposed to putting ideas for a new name forward, which seems to be what we're looking for at the moment.

...Speaking of, is there a reason we're not doing a crowner? Do the mods and/or admins want to decide between themselves, are we waiting for more people to show interest, or are crowners busted at the moment? :/

Well, this topic started yesterday, and there have been 25 name suggestions since then, so there's no reason to rush to a crowner yet.

And it says "Trope Builder" in the title since that was the OP's original suggestion, and since, as has been mentioned, the discussion's only been going for a day, no one's gotten around to renaming it.

^^^ Only mods can change the thread title at this point.

I favor Page Builder myself.

But yeah. Keep the page open for a week or so to make sure that everyone can weigh in, have the single question crowner, and then unless we get "leave the name as it is," we can have a new-name crowner.

I am aware of that. I'm pretty sure at least some mods are following this, which is why I didn't bother hollering.

edited 12th Feb '16 11:52:44 PM by Knowlessman

Trope Builder, Page Builder, Article Builder. They're all good. I can get behind leaving YKTTW behind and giving it a new, more descriptive name.

edited 13th Feb '16 12:10:16 AM by TomWalpertac2

I like Trope Builder, Trope Launcher, and Make A Trope Workshop. However, I'd like to throw in another suggestion: Lets Build A Trope. Keeps the casual sound, and it conveys that launching a trope page is supposed to be a collaborative process.

And I don't see any problem with using words like "build" or "make" in reference to tropes. Yes, technically the tropes already exist and we're just describing them, but that seems like a very nitpicky distinction. We also don't "repair" tropes on this wiki, but I haven't seen anyone complaining about the name Trope Repair Shop.

^ Haha, good point about TRS. But let's not repeat that mistake.

For the record Irene, MegaMarioman did not offend me at all, but in fact, made me happy. I'm much more annoyed at how quickly my point on too many nonexistent works having pages outside of Darth Wiki became a campaign against the No Such Thing As Notability policy straw man. Before you can argue over whether something is notable you must first convince people that it exists. If the existence work cannot be argued in any convincing manner, it belongs on Darth Wiki, it's that simple.

Now I'll concede that Trope Launcher is preferable to Build-A-Trope Workshop or anything along those lines. But I think Gallium raises a good point. There is not much in the way of evidence that shows You Know That Thing Where is a title that is causing problems on the wiki. Maybe we do spend too much time fixing what isn't broke in the wake of things that actually are. But to me, the ability to create works pages outside of Darth Wiki without convincing anyone of their existence is a bigger problem than what You Know That Thing Where is called. Again, that's not an argument works pages should go through this particular process, just a point. I can accept Trope Launcher(Trope Page Launcher would be more accurate but whatever), any new title I don't think is too inane, but don't think a new is one necessary.

(Retitled thread)

^^ One good point there: TropePageBuilder (or Launcher/Drafter) will circumvent the criticism about us not inventing tropes.

Except that it still invites the criticism that it shouldn't be used for YMMV, Trivia, etc.

I personally like Page Launch Pad or Article Launch Pad. Things like "Page Builder" tend to be seen as a page-construction UI with instant publication, which is the intent we're trying not to convey. (Better than YKTTW, but "letting the "Better" be the enemy of the "Good"" only applies where the "Better" is infeasible.^note Saying in reference to PLP vs PB, not PLP or PB vs YKTTW.)

EDIT: I would've suggested the Article Shipyard, except the latter word evokes a concept which is its own mess.

I'm still apprehensious about melding this to the examples database, but I haven't read that thread straight through and need to get to work.

edited 13th Feb '16 6:12:36 AM by DonaldthePotholer

"There is not much in the way of evidence that shows You Know That Thing Where is a title that is causing problems on the wiki."

Solution in search of a problem.

That statement is not entirely accurate. First it doesn't describe what it is and what it does. Also yes on more then one occasion folks haven't known where to go and had to be directed there even though they could clearly see a link directly to YKTTW. The name should clearly indicate what it does without much need for any explanation. Second as pointed out by one of the mods no less it was named that as part of an old inside joke.

Those two factors alone are rather good reasons to change the name to something more clear and to the point. It isn't for fun or occasional reader amusement like the just for fun sections of the wiki. It is an editor tool that serves a rather important function in the creation of trope articles.

edited 13th Feb '16 7:00:09 AM by TuefelHundenIV

May I ask what drove the decision to rename Lost & Found into Trope Finder?

I swear I saw that around somewhere in another thread and it boiled down to making it more obvious what it was for at a glance.

Yes, there was a discussion now linked from Lost And Found.

The reason for these is simple: old hands know where these tools are. New people don't. It is not intuitive that Lost And Found means "go here to ask if we have a trope" at first glance, nor that You Know That Thing Where means "go here to draft a new trope idea".