Mobile Suit Gundam: Iron-Blooded Orphans

@Iaculus You bring up a good point about Mika's 'seeing himself as just a weapon' following Hashamal to a degree. That was how Mikazuki saw things when his right side was gone; but I also argue that wasn't the case in the finale. Between his words to Orga in episode 39 to the finale many things happened. One of the main things was Atra who managed to get through to Mikazuki if just in that her confession made him realize there was more to consider than just being Orga's sword. He even states one of the reasons he does fight is that 'so she doesn't have to cry anymore'. Obviously things went very well considering Atra became pregnant; and Mikazuki doesn't strike me as someone who would just do all that, and then go back to his self-destructive behavior.

Plus there was how he rallied the Tekkadan troops when Orga died; yes he was in essence just stating his desire to fulfill Orga's last orders as he was want to do instead or rush off to avenge Orga and drag Tekkadan down a path of blood like last season. He fully understood Orga and himself sees the value of living to see another day, hence he saw fit to keep everyone motivated on survival than revenge as much as he probably wanted to deal Orga's executioners swift bloody death. Hell in episode 2 he said it himself 'he does value his own life, along with everyone else's'. So while Mika can be self-destructive it isn't out of some death wish mentality. He just wants to be useful, because if you aren't useful then you're nothing as all the adults prior to Tekkadan's formation were happy to drill into his head day in and out. As much as Mika claims he's nobody's victim we the viewers know how far from the truth that is.

Yes, maybe he was unsure of his and Akihiro's chances; but I don't think Mikazuki intended to die if he could help it. If he did, then so be it he knew the battlefield could easily not be in his favor; but he had much more to live fore even if he was a cripple. Atra and Kudelia both reinforced that to him; he only asked Kudelia protect Atra and the baby if he died was out of pragmatism for the situation since death was a possibility. He simply wasn't afraid to die but was never looking for a place to die.

Akihiro had his own baggage; but I think despite his pain he saw there was plenty to still live for even if a lot of people he wanted to enjoy life with were gone. His rebuttal of Orga's promise of money and women was mostly his current state of mind refuting the idea of women because he just LOST Lafter. Even if nothing romantic had sparked between them yet; given time it could have happened. He respected and was fond of her; he just had some stunted social development after years living with the stigma of being Human Debris. Maybe in time he'd open up to such things again but in that moment Akihiro was just about finishing the mission. I doubt he was a death seeker either, least not after his character development in S1 because he had plenty left to protect. There was Derma, plus the rest of Tekkadan; that's why he stayed with Mikazuki. Both due to the fact if they had to abandon the Gundam Mika needed someone to carry him; and also because due to both having said Gundams they had the best chance to fight off Gjallarhorn's mooks and possible survive because 'fucking Gundams'.

edited 5th Apr '17 4:20:31 PM by GBHPrime84

Fly Gundam! Autobots ROLL OUT! COWABUNGA/BOOYAKASHA!!

Nothing was going to happen between them since it was Lafter herself who chose her job instead of Akihiro.

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.

I look at it more she saw right now she had to focus on helping her family get back on their feet after Naze and Amida were murdered. She hadn't given up on Akihiro it was just not good timing. Honestly I was satisfied she didn't run off with him if just because it meant she wasn't rebounding. Granted she was falling for Akihiro before Naze died but the point still stands. If they were going to get together it would be best waited for her to be in a better place emotionally. Especially with Akihiro being slightly socially stunted and needed time to sort his own feelings if there were any beyond friendship. (and how he reacted to her murder and wanted to get vengeance for her clearly showed he cared a hell of a lot about her even if it wasn't romantic at the time or may have been and he hadn't recognized it yet; but was ultimately denied.)

So honestly even if she chose her job it wasn't she gave up on Akihiro just getting with him then wasn't the right time. Then Jasely fucked it all up that prick.

edited 5th Apr '17 6:01:55 PM by GBHPrime84

Fly Gundam! Autobots ROLL OUT! COWABUNGA/BOOYAKASHA!!

A lot of that is simply because we have more of those small character moments in season one in general. Season two focuses more on his relationships with others than him personally, because we've already gotten to know him pretty well in season one. That said, while his issues after Edmonton and especially after Hashmal do affect his quality of life, there's nothing to suggest that he's given up on life outside of fighting, and you seem to be simply dismissing the evidence to the contrary (like his gardening experiments) out of hand. Like I said earlier, even going into the last fight, Akihiro mentions that Mika will need someone to carry him once the fight is over, and Mika basically says "yeah, okay". Mika is as blunt as a brick to the face. If he was intending to die, he would have told Akihiro to go and leave things to him.

The Hashmal fight isn't about Orga. The Hasmal fight is all about protecting the people of Mars, because Tekkadan are not fucking monsters. They could have stayed the hell out of the way and called in Gjallarhorn to dainsleif the thing into a crater (again) without risking themselves, but that would have meant letting Hashmal rampage around unchecked long enough for it to kill thousands, maybe millions of people. Mika didn't sacrifice more of his motor functions to take down Hashmal because Orga told him to. He did it because the alternative was allowing a massacre.

This is another example of Mika's basic humanity showing through loud and clear, not an example of him sacrificing his humanity at the altar of Orga.

Actually, I'd say Akihiro had more problem about his future than Mika did. Unlike Mika, we never see Akihiro planning for his future. He's focused purely on the present in a way that Mika was demonstrably not. I suspect this is a result of being human debris; people like Mika and Orga could look forward to a theoretical future where they were free to live without having to fight, but as human debris, Akihiro could not. I wouldn't be surprised if that attitude stuck with him even after he was freed. Yeah, he adopts some of the other human debris kids, and he clearly considers a romance with Lafter, but those are still issues for the present. He never talks about what he'll do in the future.

With that in mind, I think he went into it with the same attitude as Mika. There was a job that needed doing. Delay Gjallarhorn. Let the rest of Tekkadan escape. Then escape himself, if he could, with Mika. So he did it. Also like Mika, he was dead after the dainsleif barrage, so he just did what he could to make the little time he had left count for something — though his final task was rather more personal than Mika's.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

Another tidbit that Mika didn't sacrifice himself to the alter of Orga.

He disobeyed Orga to go fight it. Orga wanted ALL G-pilots to stay away because of the limiter problem. Mikazuki saw things were going not so good (especially with Id Iok constantly tripping up Tekkadan's plans), so he saw the only chance to take out Hashamal was to take the risk onto himself. He did it once before (fighting with the limiter off); so he was the best suited especially since Akihiro was still out cold and the Flauros wasn't equipped for close combat since it was set up for artillery shelling and their 'barely legal semi-dainslef' ammo was used it for that one shot.

Orga didn't want him to go; he disobeyed him and went to fight the 'Angel' because if he didn't it would keep going unchecked and kill everyone before a better solution was available. That was Mika just being a human being who knew he he had the skill and Mobile Suit to have a snowball's chance in hell of beating the Mobile Armor so he took the chance; the risks be damned because it was take the risk or everyone dies.

After all Atra and Kudelia didn't opt to evacuate so if it got to Chryse they were dead (extra motivation right there alone). Along with everyone else he cared about Cookie, Cracker, Ms. Sakura, the rest of Tekkadan not on the battlefield back at base etc. So yeah personal stakes a plenty; not just casting his humanity for the sake of 'the alter of Orga' so to speak.

edited 5th Apr '17 8:28:00 PM by GBHPrime84

Fly Gundam! Autobots ROLL OUT! COWABUNGA/BOOYAKASHA!!

I wish he did that more though. I feel as though I would like Mika more as a character if the show had played up more what Orga wants and what he wants, maybe by being somewhat more obvious how he was learning to do take charge for himself.

Warrior to the very end! My tumblr, dood!

The way IBO played out character-focus wise seemed to favor a sort of 'there is no one main character' trope. Whereas usually the lead Gundam pilot (or sole Gundam pilot in the few shows with only one Gundam) is the focus and we follow them and the entourage cast members get focus here and there. Tekkadan as a whole and Kudelia seemed to be the main focus as a dozen for a bunch kind of thing. Some of the cast's roles varied with Mikazuki's focus besides being the main G-pilot and Orga's muscle. That said I do agree in wishing we had more, especially his and Orga's backstory that was worth several clips of an episode or an entire episodes focus.

Fly Gundam! Autobots ROLL OUT! COWABUNGA/BOOYAKASHA!!

By his own words, Mikazuki fought the Hashmal entirely before Orga, and in a way that revealed a disturbing, self-destructive edge. The trigger was when Orga tried to go out in his custom Shiden, and he stopped him, saying 'I'll go before you do'. He argued that another neural overload wouldn't be a problem because 'as long as Barbatos still moves, it won't get any worse' while the camera cuts to a shot of his useless arm, and then reminds Orga that this is just another articulation of his own philosophy of 'the shortest route to glory', and that since he owes his life to his buddy, he has to use it entirely to help him. Afterwards, he expresses satisfaction to Orga that he won't have to deal with the changing world Kudelia is bringing, because now he can do nothing but fight - he saw no future in any of his other options, so he chose to discard them.

There's also some RL subtext here with the 'gekokujo' ('the low overcomes the high') principle, a Sengoku-era throwback that was used by young IJA officers to explain and justify their tendency to disobey their superiors' orders in order to act in what they believed to be their superiors' interests. The most notorious examples of this were the Mukden Incident, the False Flag Operation that kicked off the Second Sino-Japanese War, and the political killings that led to the phrase 'government by assassination', but there were more benign cases as well, like troops disobeying orders to retreat or advancing without permission to secure glory for their commanders. Orga references this later with his realisation that he wasn't the only one responsible for Tekkadan's course - his followers were pushing him from below out of sheer, fanatic faith in and loyalty to him.

What's precedent ever done for us?

Yeah I kinda agree with you there, Mika feels like someone who moves the plot along rather than being an important character of the plot itself.

Warrior to the very end! My tumblr, dood!

Considering how the show ended, here's something that should be Hilarious in Hindsight:

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2017-04-04/gundam-iron-blooded-orphans-yuka-terasaki-announces-marriage-pregnancy/.114300

Guess Kudelia did get pregnant after all!

Warrior to the very end! My tumblr, dood!

@Native Jovian: She wasn't all that hesitant though, surprised sure, but we've seen the three of them be affectionate to each other, the three together, over the corse of the two seasons.

I just disagree that it's a love triangle since those tend to have conflict, while Kudelia and Atra always got along and Atra was always cool with them both being with Mikazuki.

It's certainly not something i've seen in a story before.

"They truly were a Aqua Teen Hunger Force"

What I was getting at is the fact that she waffled on committing to the relationship until it was a moot point. It was clear that she had romantic feelings for Mika and a close friendship with Atra, but it wasn't clear that she was willing to do anything with Mika if it meant accepting Atra as part of a package deal. (Atra, on the other hand, made it very clear that she wanted the relationship to include all three of them, and Mika indicated that he didn't mind.)

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

Eh, I just chalked up Kudelia's relative slowness in developing a relationship to her not being quite as forward and assertive as Atra is (at least once Atra got some encouragement). Also she's not around as often, so fewer chances to get closer to Mika.

My thoughts on the final episode (in no real order):

The final fight could have been dragged out just a smidge longer. I don't know how, but it could have been done.

YES! YES! FUCK YOU IOK, YOU DESERVED IT! On the other hand, it was too short for my liking. Yes, the fear was there. The pain was there. But it should have been dragged out a good deal longer, to let the panic really set in. He should have SUFFERED. But I'll take it anyways.

Was it just me, or did this episode seem about half as long as the others?

I personally don't ship Gaelio and Julieta, but for a different reason than most. From what I've been guessing, excluding the finale, she's somewhere around 16-18, while Gaelio strikes me as around 25.^note Then again, ages are massively deceptive in Gundam. For the longest time, I thought that Zechs/Milliardo from Wing was around 30, when in actuality, he's only 19, so I'm not going to go too much into it.

I didn't notice Barbatos making wolf sounds, but I did notice the resemblance to Hashmal. Not gonna lie, I'm glad I wasn't one of those Mooks.

Ha HA! Fuck you too, Nobliss! Get your just desserts! On the other side of the coin, NOOO! RIDE, WHY MUST YOU HURT YOURSELF THIS WAY?!

I am disappoint that they did not use a musical Call-Back to the first season by including either Raise Your Flag or Orphans Namida, but they made up for it by playing Fighter as the final fight was going on.

Not too big of a fan that basically the entire episode was basically an extended "Where Are They Now?" Epilogue, but eh. They made it, what can you do?

Rustal becomes the resident Karma Houdini, not really surprised at this point if I'm honest. (He's still a better choice than Iok for that, let's admit)

Love how Kudelia kept Tekkadan's livery alive through her earrings.

My heart shattered when I saw Akatsuki looking at the picture frame we've constantly seen in the ending.

Looks like Atra and Kudelia chose the yuri route.

edited 6th Apr '17 9:50:47 PM by alphazoid

Suck it, troper!

Reading up on the upcoming English version of IBO season 2, DC Douglas is Jasley.

I was a bit surprised that he's involved like the time with One Piece.

"Exit muna si Polgas. Ang kailangan dito ay si Dobermaxx!"

Neither Raise Your Flag nor Tears of Orphans would have been appropriate for the ending. I like them both better than any of the other OP/ED tracks, but they just wouldn't have worked. The former is an uptempo, aggressive song about never giving up no matter how many times you're beaten down. The latter is a melancholy song about mourning lost loved ones that you've left behind.

Neither really fits the ending, which is about a mix of the two. Raise Your Flag would have added an optimistic note that wouldn't have fit a scene about being out of options and facing inevitable death despite all attempts to avoid it. Orphans of Tears would have made it a full-on Tear Jerker when it wasn't meant to be.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

Yeah I'm glad neither played for that reason.

Now that you've brought it up, I can see why they didn't go with those. Yeah, it wouldn't have made sense at all. But they brought back the original battle theme, which to my knowledge hadn't really been played all season, and that's good enough for me.

edited 7th Apr '17 11:13:56 PM by alphazoid

Suck it, troper!

I just finished watching Iron-Blooded Orphans. I have to say, the second part is pretty underwhelming compared to the first part. Anyway, why does Bakugou Hush have to die? He doesn't do anything throughout the second part and it doesn't fulfill anything to the plot. While we're at it, what's with Gundam series' tendency to kill off a character with little to no reason whenever it's reaching its conclusion?

edited 9th Apr '17 7:58:23 AM by flamemario12

Eh yeah, I have to agree with you on some points. Some of the character deaths felt really forced and telegraphed, which is kinda a shame because I wish Orga's had been done better.

Warrior to the very end! My tumblr, dood!

Basically it's to emphasize the realism of war is hell and all it does is make people die pointlessly and for nothing other than some rich asshole who notable isn't anywhere close to the fighting. It's great for driving the message across, not so much for telling a story

PSN ID: FateSeraph | Switch friendcode: SW-0145-8835-0610 Congratulations! She/They

But still, while some were well done like biscuit, others, like Orga's death were just painfully telegraphed. I mean, did they really have to lampshade in such a way beforehand as if "what could possibly go wrong?" , I mean, yeah..

Warrior to the very end! My tumblr, dood!

Oh I agree it definitely could have been done better. Apparently season 2, much like season 1, was impacted by disputes between the director and writers. Basically the director wanted to give Tekkedan (Kudelia included) the Tomino Special because he believed they needed to be "punished" for everything they've done ^* they were literally slave child soldiers, and they weren't the ones committing war crimes with a smile. What the fuck dude?, and Okada wanted none of that bullshit. So what we got is the compromise they made and the last handful of episodes had to be rewritten to some extent in order to make it work.

PSN ID: FateSeraph | Switch friendcode: SW-0145-8835-0610 Congratulations! She/They

Wow, that director sounds like a dumbass.

Also, the second season definitely had problems with allocation of focus and screen time, making a lot of characters feel like they got wasted.