Just a Face and a Caption: The Obi Wan

The image for this trope is just a robed old man pointing a finger. I know why the image is there because I've seen the relevant films, but without having seen the films, this picture is meaningless.

As far as I can tell, the trope's main points are this:

• Mentor to the protagonist.
• Training/advising the protagonist.
• Usually doomed to die or be otherwise relegated to the background of the story so that the protagonist can dominate.

I'm not sure if any image can really convey this. I have searched for a replacement to suggest, but I haven't found one. The current image doesn't convey any of this.

Ugh...definite JAFAAC. Not sure about a replacement right now, but I'd vote no pic over that.

The Other Wiki calls it the wise old man. We can find a picture that would show that.

A ghostly Obi-Wan, actively advising Luke?

edited 1st Oct '15 10:28:21 PM by Josef5678

Yes, that was what I was going to suggest: a pic of the mentor actually mentoring.

That looks more like Spirit Advisor, and is apparently in fact the current image.

(And although Obi-Wan Kenobi becomes a Spirit Advisor, that is not a key facet of The Obi-Wan.)

I thought Star Wars was considered the one exception to JAFAAC.

This one may actually slide by due to Grandfather Clause, like The Scrappy.

The pic isn't one of the admin-keep situations, so I'd say we're free to change it.

If we do change the current to the suggestion from 4, that will mean having to change the image for Spirit Advisor, if we can come up with a replacement for that one.

REDACTED

edited 2nd Oct '15 8:37:21 PM by Willbyr

I'd rather change this. [1]◊ [2]◊ [3]◊ [4]◊

I'm torn between 1 and 4, though 1 is clearer.

I don't think Spirit Advisor should change.

I think 13.1 is the best of the four.

13.1 is great, but 13.4 shows a more powerful and experienced master, as well as shows the two in some sort of quest.

13.1 = 13.3 > 13.4 > 13.2

13.4 or 13.1 work for me.

Looks we got mixed consensus. Should there be a crowner?

There usually is one after we get all the suggestions.

I prefer 13.1 as well.

On the subject of 13.4 showing a more powerful and experienced master, it doesn't matter, does it? Shouldn't we look at pictures from the point-of-view of what they reveal about the trope to people who know nothing about the work the picture comes from? Isn't that the problem with JAFAAC pictures, that they're meaningless unless you know exactly where the picture comes from?

Gandalf's power and experience relative to Dumbledore only matters to people who are familiar with the two works, so I don't think it should be relevant to which picture best illustrates the trope. The reason I prefer 13.1 to 13.4 is because 13.4 is potentially ambiguous - is that old man the ill-fated guiding star or an out-of-breath oldie being helped by the younger character? 13.1 doesn't have anything to indicate that the old man is on his way out, but at least the picture looks like an old man who gives advice to someone.

I did have a look for a mentoring shot that includes Dumbledore's withering hand, but there aren't any good ones that I could find. I haven't seen anything better than the four options in post 13.

edited 4th Oct '15 1:42:41 PM by Wyldchyld

I was referring to that by appearance alone; Gandalf literally had him under his wing, while Dumbledore is simply pointing at his pupil.

This doesn't matter, changing the Spirit Advisor page has never been the preferred course of action... but what I should have done is point out that its page image was chosen in an IP thread: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=1420050170051656400

edited 4th Oct '15 9:34:36 PM by rodneyAnonymous

I think none of the suggestions so far are good enough. As pointed out by the OP, it needs to fulfill the criteria of Mentoring/training the protagonist and then either dying or going Out of Focus. These images of Obi-Wan, Dumbledore (who is also the page image^note and former Trope Namer for Eccentric Mentor, which may be potential for overlap and confusion), and Gandalf show the mentoring, but they have all failed to demonstrate the latter part, making them fit the "pretty much JAFAAC" category described on that page.

Moreover, I have to question why we have this trope in this form at all. It's burdened by a name suffering from Fan Myopia that is only around because of the Grandfather Clause^note If indeed it is; have there been any precedents where the name was kept by admin fiat or similar?, and we also have both Mentor Archetype and Mentor Occupational Hazard as tropes. I could see retooling The Obi-Wan as an explicitly magical character, but it would need a much clearer name for that. In fact, some of the suggestions in this thread would be better on Mentor Archetype, which just shows an old man sitting in a room without even an apprentice.

edited 8th Oct '15 5:45:03 AM by Morgenthaler