Jupiterian Local
I rewrote the first paragraph and expanded the different hunting types.
Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
Wow, now that's a trope.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Jupiterian Local
I might've gone a bit overboard, honestly, especially on the hunt type descriptions. That might be something better suited to the analysis page or something.
Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
I think it looks good, though it probably needs a reference to The Wild Hunt in there (since that's basically an inverted version of the trope).
Jupiterian Local
There was originally, but I took it out because I didn't see the connection other than "they both involve hunting".
Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Seems like the right thing to do, honestly, would have been to rename/expand Fox Hunting to a wider rich-people-hunt-game trope, rather than launch a different trope in The Grand Hunt. But it's too late for that, so sure, maybe merge Fox Hunting into The Grand Hunt.
Jupiterian Local
The Grand Hunt already exists, and there doesn't seem to be any significant difference between The Grand Hunt and Fox Hunting, so the decision was to merge Fox Hunting into The Grand Hunt. The sandbox is the proposed text for the merged (and generally improved and expanded) version.
Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Would hare coursing also count?
The only thing I would add to the trope, is that these hunts aren't just about the fun of the hunt. It's about the wealthy/nobility socialising and networking. It's about greasing the wheels. It's like the stereotype of businessmen playing golf to help close deals.
While a lot of stories won't be interested in that (and authors may not even know that), there will be stories that do know it and do cover it, especially stories that may have a more social focus to the plot, such as political or business intrigue.
Perhaps rewrite the following very slightly:
to:
And:
to:
I'd also clarifying the Fox hunting section: it was hunting with hounds that was banned, not fox hunting. The famous method of fox hunting was obviously banned by virtue of falling under the definition of 'hunting with hounds'. This law also made hare coursing illegal for the same reason. There are other ways to 'hunt' foxes that are still legal.
edited 18th Dec '15 7:04:31 PM by Wyldchyld
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
I don't think hare coursing would count, I was just clarifying that it definitely doesn't. There are occasions where there are large social gatherings where the dogs are bet on to see who gets the best score by the end of the day, but they're not so typical, especially given the illegal status in certain countries now.
Regarding the fox hunting, I was mostly just talking about how it works in real life, where this idea of a 'grand hunt' is more of a fiction found in stories than the reality. Fox hunting is very much business-meets-pleasure for everyone involved, even if it's been organised by royal households. Even kings need to network, and to assert royal authority over their kingdoms (which is historically a major political part of royal hunts; royal hunts have even been used as part of military training regimes in the past in certain countries). The person putting it on (even if a king or the baron), would effectively be the 'host' of the event and therefore the person everyone's ultimately there to network with, even if they also need to network with each other.
However, it's an aspect that rarely makes its way into stories because authors often don't realise that's a major part of what fox hunting is all about (hence stories creating 'grand hunts' that don't really reflect the reality); the authors therefore just focus on the sport and the fun. It's mostly only likely to be covered if there's a political aspect to the story where such a thing would be relevant.
It is a thing though, which is why I mentioned it. My point was that this is the major difference between The Grand Hunt and Fox Hunting. One is a storytelling convention that usually strips out the business-meets-pleasure reality and the other would very much include the business-meets-pleasure aspect even if organised by a king. Merging the two would need to mention this. Most examples would be The Grand Hunt (because most authors don't know the business/networking aspect, and it's rarely relevant for the stories concerned anyway), but there will be plenty of stories where the business/networking aspect will be relevant, even important, and yet it'll still count as this (merged) trope, it's just that the authors are trying to bring this oft-ignored aspect of hunts into the story.
edited 27th Dec '15 1:33:41 PM by Wyldchyld
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
edited 27th Dec '15 8:49:39 PM by crazysamaritan
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Right, and most authors don't know about it which is why it doesn't appear in most stories. But some authors do know about it, which is why it appears does appear in some stories - usually stories that have the political or diplomatic side, including certain mystery/crime stories.
All I'm saying is that it's a thing, and just because most authors don't know it to use it, doesn't change the fact that there are plenty of authors that do (even if they're less common), so a couple of words to expand the description (and it doesn't need more than a couple of words) captures the full use in storytelling without bogging down the description.
edited 30th Dec '15 10:20:48 AM by Wyldchyld
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Jupiterian Local
I tweaked the sandbox a bit to include the networking/politicking angle, mostly at the end of the first paragraph.
Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Looks good to me.
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
I'm fine with the current draft.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
The tweak looks good to me. Thanks for adding it.
Is it worth splitting the first paragraph into two smaller ones? That's just a minor query. If everyone's fine with it, I won't comment further on it. The draft looks good either way.
edited 31st Dec '15 6:50:48 AM by Wyldchyld
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Hi
I think it's good as is.
Filthy casual
I agree. It's fine.
edited 1st Jan '16 8:06:45 AM by TheUnsquished
(Annoyed grunt)
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
Description switched in and sandbox is on the cutlist. Now to move examples from Fox Hunting and change wicks as appropriate before putting FH on the cutlist.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
12 wicks left.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph
All of Fox Hunting's wicks have now been changed (most deleted completely, except for two changed to The Grand Hunt).
edited 26th Jan '16 1:51:14 PM by Lymantria
Join the Five-Man Band cleanup project!
Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph
Fox Hunting has now been cut.
Join the Five-Man Band cleanup project!
Hi
Good work. Locking up.
~Surenity, our problem is that no-one has proposed a meaning for the trope that is different from "nobles like hunting for sport to show off their wealth", which is already covered by The Grand Hunt. A Sub-Trope would have an additional meaning layered into it, a Sister Trope would have a different meaning, and a Super-Trope would have a more general meaning. But no additional meaning places us in a situation where it is a duplicate trope, but tries to be more narrow for no reason.
I did a sandbox of changes to Sandbox.The Grand Hunt, any opinions?
edited 16th Dec '15 10:53:44 AM by crazysamaritan
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.