YMMV/PokemonAnime clean-up

You know, this little project clean up would be more effective if the entire YMMV page was locked to prevent new edits from flooding in all the time.

That would be for the best.

So, with the massive fan backlash, multiple long time fans who have stuck around screaming their newfound hatred from the top of their lungs and swearing the entire thing off, and the massive amount of likes to dislikes on the official trailer for the next episode by Japanese and American fans alike, would it be safe to say that the anime now qualifies as Deader Than Disco since it seems like there's little chance it'll recover from this?

No, because it'll still be a very popular and talked about show.

And because it's only been three days

That being said, on a specific note, should we really be paying any mind to the people who "destroyed their merchandise"? All they posted was shots of it all conveniently sitting in a trash can. Intact.

edited 20th Aug '16 2:33:35 PM by TFRazorsaw

My name has nothing to do with Psychonauts.

You're also forgetting new little kids come into the anime every year having never have seen the older seasons. Disgruntled older fans don't make a difference when new 5-10 year old kids get into pokemon for the first time.

That's how the anime has survived so long in the first place, it has an ever changing kid audience.

The show would probably have to get canned before Deader Than Disco can apply; the vocal fans are the Periphery Demographic and presumably a minority, thus the actual demographic would have to affect the show's ability to stay on the air by not watching. Even then, I wouldn't be sure because of various reasons I don't feel like typing up right now.

edited 20th Aug '16 3:13:37 PM by Karxrida

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?

Exactly how damaged was the YMMV page since the fallout three days ago? Someone needs to lock the page for a proper clean up then.

And btw, I think the anime now deserves to have its own exclusive Nightmare Fuel page in light of Lysandre destroying Lumoise City and Ash and his entire team being crucified in the latest preview.

The page is full of massive walls of text and people treating speculation as worth being recorded

It needs a lock desperately

My name has nothing to do with Psychonauts.

Who has the power to lock it though? And how does one make a Nightmare Fuel page for the Pokémon Anime?

Ask a Mod in the Locked Pages thread in the Frequently Asked Questions subforum.

edited 21st Aug '16 9:38:20 AM by Karxrida

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?

You know, I realized just how big the XY Character page has gotten. So big it apparently requires a break up. And now people are considering to break up Ash's page into different series. Do you think the whole anime section of Pokémon needs a revamp, not just the YMMV?

Any speculation about the outcome of Sun and Moon needs to be removed flat out.

Personally I think the league results should be whittled down completely to one succinct entry under Broken Base and nothing more.

My name has nothing to do with Psychonauts.

We could try the alphabetical approach again. This time with no worries of edit flows. I also recommend on waiting to see how the Team Flare arc will play out because... I have a feeling we're not exactly done with the League.

Additionally, I was wondering if we should split up YMMV into specific section for each series. Because I've notice that over the course of three years, the XY tropes and character page has significantly grown. To the point it's big enough to warrant it's own anime page separated from the rest.

I agree with TF Razorsaw over the Sun/Moon speculation as this is all due to a rumored "leak" claiming that there will be no League. We don't know what's going to happen until Nintendo comes out with it.

Also, I feel that trying to claim that the anime is trying to send a Family-Unfriendly Aesop with Ash's continuing losses should not be used - it feels that way for someone who's watched the anime for ages, but for a little kid who has just started watching it, it probably doesn't.

Even if there being no league in S/M were confirmed, it still shouldn't go in there because we have nothing to go on for how the SM anime is being handled.

The Family-Unfriendly Aesop thing feels manipulative. Like it's not just a case of the fandom not getting what they want, it's bad for the kids too!!!

My name has nothing to do with Psychonauts.

Same for the Unfortunate Implication entry.

Yeah, that needs to be taken right out, and it's not even what Unfortunate Implications are about.

My name has nothing to do with Psychonauts.

Yeah, that Unfortunate Implications entry doesn't fit. Took it out.

she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report

Looking over some of the other additions, I recommend these to be removed or cut down:

Under Animation Age Ghetto:

• The XY series was for a long time considered an exception since it actually underwent quite some effort to please the older fans, but Ash's loss at the Kalos League put a swift end to that.

People are still showing interest and many are just disappointed.

Under Broken Base:

• Ash ultimately losing to Alain in the finals. The hype was everywhere. The Japanese title "Kalos League Victory! Satoshi's Ultimate Battle!" misled nearly everyone. Many have expected him to actually win this time, due to his team being one of the best he's had in a long while. His Greninja nearly defeated a champion's ace Pokémon, Goodra is the first real psuedo-legendary Ash has ever had, and Talonflame as well as Greninja are known to be a Game Breaker within the actual handheld games. Ash had also already lost to Alain twice before, giving fans a reason to believe he might come out on top this time; even promotion materials shilled over chances for his victory. However, Goodra's subpar performance despite theoretically being one of Ash's strongest Pokémon and Greninja's ultimate defeat at the hands of Mega Charizard X once again makes many fans feel cheated. On the other hand, there are others who believe that Ash-Greninja had been on too much of a rampage recently, and needed someone to put it down lest it becomes an Invincible Hero. In addition, judging from the opening, they point out that Ash and Alain will in all probability have another rematch during the Team Flare Arc, and that Ash can finally have his true victory there later on. But at the same time, others would have been just fine with Greninja taking the league in glorious fashion and feel that even if Ash wins in a rematch (if any) he'll still be a moral victor at best, as he did botch his chance at getting the Champion title in the League match which many felt would have been better for the show's sake. Some have tried to point out that Ash did win the Orange Islands League and defeated the Frontier Brains, but many fans don't count this because it's not a video game-based league; it only counts if Ash wins one of the video game leagues and many fans have already discounted the Alola adventures because of rumors that it will not have an actual Pokemon League.

Not to mention, the reason that such an implosion would occur in the first place was that the fans aren't even asking for Ash to suddenly become an Invincible Hero. They just want him to win at least ONE video game-based league!!! This had many fans blaming the writers for thinking that the moment Ash wins a league, he would suddenly retire and the show would end despite him winning the Orange League and the Battle Frontier proving otherwise.

• What makes the loss to Alain far far worse than all the other defeats was that not only was the young man totally disinterested in the entire League, save for Ash's presence, but he's working with a terrorist/criminal organisation. Fans are already discounting his victory and calling for him to be disqualified. The aftermath means he'll be stripped of his titles by the authorities if he does not honorably submit them to Ash. Even if there's a re-match, Alain has made a joke of the entire competition. There's NOTHING more hollow than Ash winning by default or technicality!
• The Unova and Kalos Leagues get flak for their rushed pacing. Some accept it for getting the inevitable disappointment of Ash losing out of they way sooner and marginalizing it, while others think that, since the buildup to the leagues are the main plot, it exasperates the usual problems and highlights the futility and pointlessness of it all.
• Ash's friends saying its okay he lost is seen as a slap in the face to many fans and paints them as enablers promoting the mantra "losing is okay" . People will still defend them because of his rank.

From Growing the Beard:

• The XY series was for a long time considered an example of this to those who did not think that AG qualified, due to it's better characterization for Ash, great animation and battles, and the improved supporting cast. Although after Ash's loss at the Kalos League, the sentiment has largerly died down.

Everything under Hype Backlash

From Overshadowed by Controversy:

• The XY series was considered one of the best series yet, with this very page having entries describing it under Growing the Beard and how it was a noted exception on the Animation Age Ghetto that plagued the series. It even ends with Ash attaining his highest League placement as of yet. All of that went down the drain, however, when he lost in the Kalos League finals against Alain.

A lot of these entries boil down to "Ash lost, so everything just flat out sucks now, there's no saving it ever." when many still do enjoy it and more or less feel that this was just a stumbling block.

Haven't read the Hype Backlash example, but something tells me I don't want to.

Regardless, I've seen the negativity on several different sites, plus that one episode preview on You Tube got a huge amount of dislikes in response to the loss.

The backlash is definitely real, but the question is how long will it last and how will the upcoming Flare arc affect people's perception of the saga?

edited 23rd Aug '16 3:08:39 PM by Karxrida

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?

People are that impatient with a story, eh? The entry that matters is Broken Base or Hype Backlash since I did see the reaction on several forums. But entries in regards to the actual content, namely Growing the Beard, should not be changed in regards to the League "results"...

Because what Alain is about to do may change the perspectives of everything...

I think a single shitty moment can undo Growing the Beard for a series if it's botched badly enough.

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?

And here's my counterargument: Why are so many people that fixated on the League results as the end all when the end of the episode makes it clear that we are not done yet? I've seen that episode live and I realized that two things:

1) Ash has grown wise while Alain failed to learn anything.

2) Alain has set himself up to a Humiliation Conga due to his association with Team Flare and likely betraying Ash to them.

Suffice to say, I prefer waiting for the story to play out before making a judgment on Growing the Beard. Same goes for all League affected tropes.

edited 23rd Aug '16 3:20:45 PM by Shadao