NaNo 4328 / 50,000
That rule has the same problems I mentioned before.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Zzzzzzzzzz
What problems? Expecting that the reaction be generally consistent? Frankly, I don't see how that's a problem.
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
Do we even have examples of creators who hate the work so much, it makes them talk about it all the time?
Here's my take on the difference, using another Trope:
I consider Bleached Underpants to be a Sub-Trope of Old Shame based on the writer wanting to distance themselves from their earlier works which were more raunchy and/or "mature".
Conversely, there's Magnum Opus Dissonance, which often results in Creator Backlash due to fans preferring (what the creator thinks is) The Unfavorite.
Hm... maybe Rjinsward's definition could be modified:
- Old Shame: The creator dislikes the work due to elements within the work itself.
- Creator Backlash: The creator hates the work for reasons external to the work itself. Can be the result of a Troubled Production, Critical Dissonance, Misaimed Fandom, etc.
For Old Shame, the creator is sour on the actual material of the work. For Creator Backlash, the creator is sour on the process of the work and/or the reception.
edited 27th May '15 8:38:07 PM by DonaldthePotholer
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Hmm... so Old Shame is "hating the work for internal reasons", and Creator Backlash is "hating the work for external reasons"? Could work, I guess.
Hi
I could go for that distinction.
Zzzzzzzzzz
That ... works for me.
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
Hurler of Swine
Works for me, too.
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
A generally verifiable sentiment that we can track, whether or not they waffle.
Given that both Tropes in question have subpages, I think that more input is needed before we do any definition changes.
So, bump.
It's either real or it's a dream
Yeah, and their are tons of examples on both tropes, and they have 4175 wicks combined (1388 for Creator Backlash, and 2787 for Old Shame).
We need to do a wick analysis. I may help when I have a bit more time on my hands.
If the author's values shifted, and he no longer agrees with what he said in the work, would that count as an external reason?
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
That would be "elements within the work itself", and why I was campaigning about a rule regarding waffling. A Creator recanting about an element they put into their work is the creator soured on the actual material of the work.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
The Unknown
I agree with the proposal in post 30, though from my understanding of Bleached Underpants I think it should just be listed as a related trope instead of a subtrope. You can probably make a BU version of a work and not be ashamed of the original, though the shame is often a major factor in the bleaching.
If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
Well, we seem to have reached a consensus, who is ready to rewrite the tropes?
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Locking as part of New Years Purge
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
That's what I was looking for, Reymma! "I'd rather not talk about that, can we talk about something else, please" vs "Damn, I hate that! Here's how much I hate it <insert rant>. and why I hate it <insert another rant>."
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.