Pan (yet another Peter Pan origin story)

AKA the movie that's gotten in huge trouble for purposefully casting the whitest girl they could find as Tiger Lily. As they should. The getting in trouble part, I mean. Just watch the trailer:

I'm more confused by the setting than anything else. Peter's mother looks like she wandered off the set of a film noir, and Neverland looks almost steampunk at times. They couldn't just do something Georgian or Victorian with it, when a Peter Pan prequel would logically take place?

If I see it, it'll probably be on DVD or online. Doesn't look worth going to theaters for, and not just because of the blatant racism.

edited 27th Nov '14 8:43:44 PM by Mort08

Honestly? Don't see the problem with it. The Tribe (whose name escapes me) doesn't even barely resemble an actual Native-American tribe in ethnicity, culture or pretty much anything other than being a tribe, so I'm not very concerned with the ethnicity of the actress, because clearly they're not aiming for a very close Fantasy Counterpart Culture here (like seriously they're wearing multi-colored wigs for the love of Christ).

At least it looks very creative, as in the aesthetic is intense.

I'll probably see it, but mostly because you can almost feel the scenery being chomped down to bits by Hugh Jackman's Blackbeard.

I agree. None of them looked like Native Americans at all. It's a tribe of light skinned people. Anyone can leave society and go form a tribe. It's an impressive looking trailer for what looks like a very unique movie as far as retelling stories goes. That doesn't mean I'll see it in theaters.

Well, it does have Hugh Jackman in it. It ought to be fun at least. Is it disney? Cause live action disney films have not been doing great lately. Maleficient, case in point.

Oh, and about the native american thing. The last movie that had a casting ethnicity blunder was The Last Airbender and that movie didn't suck at all. I mean, like at all. It was not the worst adaptation ever made or anything. It was great.

edited 27th Nov '14 9:46:30 PM by ElRigo

It's Warner Bros.

Yeah, I just saw the trailer, and it does have several red flags. I mean, in the first portions it feels like peter pan grew up in the same orphanage as oliver twist.

Ok, here is Rigo's prediction. Its gonna be not that good, but its gonna pull a Dungeons and Dragons and have our resident Hugh Jackman deliver a truly hilarious performance that is gonna make the whole thing almost worth it.

...Is it strange that I seem more concerned they turned Hook into Fangirl Bait? Look at him! Dashing, witty, rugged but not too manly, doesn't mind being called a princess.

It would be interesting if this doubles as Hook's Start of Darkness as well as Peter Pan's origin story, but Hook just looks so... charming.

Also, Hugh Jackman-flavored ham. At least that can't be bad, probably why he has top billing.

edited 27th Nov '14 9:57:23 PM by Calnos

Maybe they're basing their Hook of off Once Upon a Time.

If it goes according to prediction Fun Times will be had. Anyhow, at least the effects are decent.

Did someone read the actual book? Cause I am not sure the tribe in it was actual native americans.

They were. I've read Peter and Wendy, they were a tribe of Native Americans. They've been recolored as multi-cultural to justify casting a Swedish woman to play a (presumably) Lakota character.

You're kind of damned if you do and damned if you don't when it comes to the Native Americans in this story. On one hand, a portrayal of them that's faithful to the book is going to be horribly racist. On the other hand, this film tries sidestepping the issue by going full fantasy with them and gets hit with accusations of whitewashing. You can't really do a culturally accurate portrayal of them because, IIRC, they don't really adhere to any particular tribe. They're inherently stereotypical.

You've got your dragon-tattooed girls mixed up.

edited 27th Nov '14 11:07:13 PM by Mort08

Robin Williams already did the best live-action Peter Pan movie ever.

So they went "Politically correct" on this. Hmmm.

They COULD have hired Mexicans.

Hmm, Wikipedia says:

It's not real natives either way...what most people fail to understand is that the natives in Peter Pan are as historical correct as the pirates are - not at all. They are what children imagine when they play cowboy and Indians. Now naturally it might be worth discussing if it is really okay that children make a game out of what was basically the destruction of a culture. On the other hand, most children games have little to do with reality. They play with their nice fire engine and pretend that a house is in fire, without considering that in reality there is nothing cool about a situation like this. Hell, even we adults tend to romanticising Pirates, unless they are from Somalia.

I'm of the same sentiments as some of you. They aren't going for actual Indians in this movie, some kind of Fanatsy Amazon tribe (I say Amazon because I once saw a stage production of Peter and Wendy where the Indians were in fact changed to Amazons, and mostly played by women, if I remember correctly).

If they did try and stay faithful to the book...yeah, it's kind of a lose-lose situation. Either you have a racist depiction of a culture, or you white-wash it to a fantasy tribe.

To be fair to the original play though, Neverland was described (in the novelization anyway) as the physical manifestation of the games the Darling children would play with each other, so it kinda makes sense that the Neverland tribe is full of racist stereotypes. Children from the early 1900's wouldn't really know any better...

edited 28th Nov '14 8:22:03 AM by Sisi

Exactly. I have never seen Tiger Lily and her tribe as "native American" but as "Indian". Blame Buffalo Bill, or whatever else shaped the European idea of how America truly is, but even to this day the first contact children have with the thematic (well, unless they are American children, I guess, I can imagine that the thematic is move present in the education there) are Winnetou and Old Shatterhand, with all the clichés which are connected with them.

That was my immediate thought as soon as he introduced himself. Follow the Leader and all that; OUAT's Hook is very popular and likable, so someone on the production team probably just showed them a few episodes and went, "Let's do THAT."

Split the difference and make them Asian.

In all seriousness, I agree that it's a Damned If You Do, Damned If You Don't situation. I don't agree that not being a racist depiction of the culture means they have to be white, however. White is not the Default Race.

But that has more to do with the overall whitewashing of Hollywood than this film specifically. The female lead is a pretty white girl because of course she is.

Conclusion Thus Far

I'm probably not going to see this in theaters. Between borrowing Oliver Twist for the first act, cribbing Hook off of Once Upon a Time, and Tiger Lily calling attention to the disproportionate number of white people in Neverland - by which I mean Hollywood - the trailer has done a fairly good job of convincing me that not a lot of effort actually went into this.

edited 28th Nov '14 9:13:28 AM by TobiasDrake

It's not on the top of the watch list either...the beginning with the clocks was nifty, but otherwise...nah. Plus, between Pixar and Marvel the watch list for next year is pretty full already (damn you Disney!).

The last movie that had a casting ethnicity blunder was The Last Airbender

That's not how you spell The Lone Ranger.

The lone ranger at least has the excuse that Johnny Depp is part Cherokee.

Well, very slightly twice removed maybe.

One whole 32nd, IIRC.

It was also not the first time Johnny Depp played a native American...but I guess, "Brave" is mostly forgotten in the US (I wonder why it was so well received by critics overseas, but panned in the US).

The original cartoon using Native Americans was meant to be racist. Old timey racism, but racism nonetheless. Why else would everybody in Neverland be white, with the one exception being a tribe of primitives? Hell, just google them and you see the racism. They're demonically red toned, except for Tiger Lilly.

So the option was keep the old racism, which is nowhere near as acceptable today as it was in the 50s, or you make a tribe of white people. Really, any other race is unacceptable since they'd be the only non-whites. And making a more diverse cast would kind of hurt the setting , since they're supposed to be from old timey London, ie a place nowhere near as diverse as, say present day America.

Lone Ranger may have messed up a bit on casting. But The Last Airbender felt downright malicious. They only made the good guys white, and kept the bad guys as racially diverse.