According to the newly released Eurostat report, Hungary is the 4-5th poorest EU country, tied with Poland. GDP per capita is 68% of the EU average. Only Bulgaria, Romania, Croatia and Latvia are even worse off. In terms of consumption per capita, we're fourth with 62%.
So the claim that we can't support that many refugees isn't just propaganda. Economy-wise, we firmly belong to the Balkans.
edited 17th Jun '15 6:00:53 PM by amitakartok
Watched news in TV today. Apparently, refugee camps are catastrophically overcrowded; one in particular is currently operating at 200% capacity. So you can see how desperate things are.
Another wave of refugees reached the country in the past days. Just yesterday, in just one county, 781 were rounded up by police. There was even a minor incident in the registration camp, where 30-40 migrants fired up the rest into a minor riot over the authorities recording their biometric data (that is, photo and fingerprint) and not giving them EU visas; the riot police stepped in but things calmed down without violence after they started to ship the migrants elsewhere by bus.
News outlets interviewed some of the new arrivals; the ones shown in the news report were from Afghanistan and headed for Germany, as do the overwhelming majority. Evidently, they have had no way of knowing that Germany will expel them back here.
Orbán is of the opinion that this isn't a refugee stream anymore, this is mass migration of the likes seen in history. He says that the current quota system for transferring refugees between EU member states is unjust, as such a thing should be opt-in; he's also calling for an immediate international conference to discuss the situation.
He also says that he doesn't have any problem with helping refugees fleeing from a warzone; it's migrants looking for a better place to permanently settle down in that he's got a problem with. Looking back at how Hungary came to be 11 centuries ago, that's kinda... hypocritical. Or ironic. Pick one.
edited 25th Jun '15 3:02:41 PM by amitakartok
Imperial knight
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Is Orbán doing something right?
Lazy and pathetic.
No, because he'll just turn it into a game of hot potato. I'd be extremely surprised if it didn't.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Honestly? I have no goddamn idea. I mean, this is the guy who has an active cult of personality among grannies and successfully managed to piss off half of Europe.
We'll see where this goes, if anywhere. Until then, I'm not making any verdicts and not holding my breath.
In other news, the govt finally got the authorities to blockade a portion of an infamous ultranationalist website they've so far been unable to touch. This site, Kurucinfo is it's name, has been a major thorn in everybody's side with its massively anti-gypsy, anti-Jew, anti-US and just generally anti-everything-that's-not-Hungary tone, causing more than one diplomatic incident in the past. Hell, they make Jobbik look like populist left-wing guys (even though the site is highly supportive of Jobbik). Problem is that it's hosted on a US server and the domain's owner denies that the site is his, so it's been legally impossible to take down so far. The part that has been blockaded now is holocaust denial stuff under a derisive term I can best translate as "holofaux".
I highly agree with this result. That kind of shit is inexcusable.
From what I'm reading right now, Austria is also having trouble housing their refugees. After an emergency meeting, the minister of interior announced that they're making room for another 6500 people - which isn't all that much, as Austria saw 6240 asylum requests in the past month alone.
The town of Traiskirchen is suffering from a humanitarian catastrophe: 2800 refugees are in the town, of which five hundred are sleeping in tents and another five hundred don't even have any beds.
edited 25th Jun '15 3:28:14 PM by amitakartok
V
Everywhere in Europe is having problems with Refugees right now.
Shameful Display
So if the Eurozone falls apart,as is looking increasingly likely,what will happen to the Eastern European states?
I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Shameful Display
Russia vetoes UN resolution calling Srebrenica 'genocide'
Four other members of the council abstained while the remainder voted in favor. The killing of some 8,000 Muslim men and boys in 1995 by Bosnian Serb troops was the worst massacre in Europe since World War Two.
The motion had angered Serbia, which rejects the term.
Imperial knight
I hope the Serbs show some gratitude for that.
Lazy and pathetic.
Angola, China, Venezuela and Nigeria were the abstains. With the UK, France, US, Chad, Jordan, Malaysia, Chile, Spain, New Zealand and Lithuania being the ones that voted for the proposal.
HGW XX/7
Who cares what the UNSC thinks? The ICTY is the one whose matter, and they are very clear on this point. As, I'm sure, are the Serbs it put in prison.
Schild und Schwert der Partei
Serbia has banned gatherings to commemorate the 20th anniversary of the Srebenica massacre, after right-wing nationalist groups threatened to "disrupt" them.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33484944
Maybe providing adequate police protection (and kicking in the teeth of any psychotic fascist whose tries something) would have been a better move. Though at least Serb leaders are going to Bosnia for the official remembrance ceremony. There will be gatherings later but this is a pretty huge, if symbolic, blow.
edited 10th Jul '15 1:27:36 PM by Rationalinsanity
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Migration is intensifying. Almost 3000 border violators have been caught this weekend alone.
Last week, there was a minor incident in the capital, at the Eastern Railway Station. Migrants frequently huddle up at that building and this time, a group of idiots started harassing them. No violence took place, but a bystander called the police anyway; the police separated the two groups... then took the migrants away instead of the troublemakers.
In the news report about this, one migrant was interviewed and said that Hungarian people are rather divided: one moment, they get spat upon, the next, they're given food and clothes (including the shirt he was wearing during the interview).
In another incident Saturday (also in the capital, though at the Western Railway Station instead), a trio of troublemakers started harassing a humanitarian group of volunteers supplying migrants with water. When a media photojournalist took a photo of the bad guys, one of them flipped out, kicked him and started chasing him around. Police were called and arrests took place.
In non-migration-related news, govt passed a resolution that inquiries into government activities like budget allocation now require a fee to be paid. A news outlet asked a Fidesz representative whether they'll still think it's a good idea once they'll be in opposition. The answer? "We won't be."
The much-criticized move of forcing all shops to be closed on Sundays has also been discovered to have been enacted specifically to fuck over multinational store chains in favor of domestic ones. The official line is that it was done so that workers can spend more time with their families - please. Some members of the domestic store chain CBA attempted to circumvent this by registering themselves as a marketplace instead of a store but the (mostly Fidesz-owned) chain announced that anyone who tries to circumvent the law will face termination; the wannabe cheaters backed down. Hell, one of them even closed down and put the building up for sale.
Another reform announced last week is the shortening of the summer break for schools (currently 11 weeks long), compensated with all the other breaks being longer instead. The excuse being that many parents have trouble finding a place to dump the kid at while they're at work. I actually agree with this one... kinda.
My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare
This Day [July 28] in Jewish History: Hungary frees the Jews, for two weeks
_________________________________
On July 28, 1849, the First National Assembly of Hungary voted to bestow civil and political equality on the country’s Jews. Unfortunately, it was a measure that remained in effect for a mere two weeks, when it was superseded by the re-imposition of Austrian imperial rule in Hungary.
Emancipation was on the public agenda in Hungary, as it was across much of Europe, all through the 1840s. Although there was a fair amount of sympathy for the idea of equality for the Jews among the various national elites, there was also a general sense that emancipation for the Jews must be accompanied by reform within Jewish society.
This included proposals that would have eliminated the practice of ritual circumcision and the laws of kashrut, which were hardly practices that had unanimous Jewish support.
Significant, if short-lived, concessions
Hungary in the 1840s was part of the Hapsburg empire, which had its capital in Vienna.
The measure of 1849 took place within the context of a broader revolution initiated the year before – and a wave of similar independence movements throughout the continent.
In Hungary, rebels did briefly succeed in wresting significant civil concessions from the Habsburg monarchy – including political independence for Hungary and the extension of rights and privileges beyond the country’s nobility.
But these initial advances by the revolution led to a backlash in the Viennese court. In December 1848, Emperor Ferdinand was forced to abdicate, and was replaced by his nephew Franz-Joseph I.
Franz-Joseph cancelled the concessions made by his predecessor, and began to organize a military force to restore imperial control over Hungary.
The Russian czar, fearing the implications of the winds of autonomy that were blowing through the lands to his west, contributed a vast supporting force that more than doubled the number of troops available to the Austrians.
Thus, by July 28, 1849, the handwriting was on the wall for the independence movement. The assembly that passed the emancipation law was a rump parliament comprised mainly of radical deputies, who were more than ready to make a gesture of gratitude from the Hungarian independence forces to the Jews for their support of the revolution.
The law, which declared itself applicable to anyone in Hungary “professing the religion of Moses,” guaranteed them “all those political and civil rights enjoyed by anyone professing any other faith.” As part of the process, the Jews were expected to convene a meeting of their religious and lay leaders to produce a “confession of faith” – a written outline of their creed — and a process of religious reform that would bring them into step with the larger society.
Instead, the Hungarians surrendered on August 13, 1849, and a period of brutal reimposition of imperial rule ensued. The Austrians were vengeful, going so far as to put revolutionary leaders before firing squads. Thousands of their lower-ranking subordinates were imprisoned.
The Austrian authorities also recognized the role played by the Jews in the revolution, and were resolved to punish them for that support. This was accomplished mainly by the imposition of a war tax of 2,300,000 guilders on the community at large, an amount that was later reduced to 1,000,000 guilders.
Some years later, in 1856, however, the emperor agreed to have the war tax collected from the Jews directed into a Jewish school fund. As a result, an impressive network of schools was established for the Jewish community, and the adoption of a regime of compulsory secular education.
By 1867, Hungary became a semi-autonomous state within the Hapsburg empire, and its Jews were once again emancipated, by way of the Equal Rights for Jews Bill. They were given rights equivalent “to those of the Christian inhabitants, as far as political and civil rights are concerned.” That was followed, in 1895, by the Law of Reception, which recognized Judaism as a “received” religion, meaning that it was now protected by the state, and that individuals could marry and convert into and out of it.
V
I understand you on migration. The news is full of whatever is happening in Calais, and I can't understand why. Why here?
Beware the Crazy Man.
Lithuania is white-washing it's involvement in the Holocaust it seems.
My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare
I guess they're going off the logic that the British Empire was the largest and strongest of its kind (many of the migrants hail from ex-British colonies), and thus is the still the strongest and most powerful nation in Europe, which means that the UK can provide more opportunities and economic potential than anywhere else - as flawed as that presumption can be. Many of the ex-colonial countries also have English and French language education due to their historical ties, but not German despite Germany being by far the most generous with immigration in recent times.
edited 29th Jul '15 3:55:35 AM by FluffyMcChicken
V
Either that or they've heard that our Welfare System may be particularly generous, or they can easily find Black Market work...
Current party support in Hungary:
- Fidesz 22%
- Jobbik 13%
- Socialists 11%
- Democratic Coalition 4%
- LMP 2%
- Együtt 1%
- PM 1%
- Others 1%
- 45% cannot or will not choose
Last week, Orbán held a speech that was trumped up in the media as a huge one that will raise eyebrows and attract major attention from abroad. Instead, he showed up in Terminator-style shades and did a complete rehash of his earlier ones in the past ten or so years. Nothing new was said.
They are still running the propaganda that the left aim to destroy national identity because they are diametrically opposed to everything national. Hell, Fidesz are so desperate to discredit their rivals that they went and stated that being a leftist is genetic.
Also, remember that major falling-out Orbán had with his right-hand man Simicska several months ago? Since then, Fidesz spent the time weeding out Simicska's people from any and all positions of leadership and authority, including the woman (Ildikó Vida) who was head of the customs office when the massive bribery scandal with the US broke out early this year. It is now being hinted that a major reform will affect the customs office soon, but no details are available yet - it is possible that it will be subordinated to the Minister of Prime Minister's Office.
edited 29th Jul '15 5:40:10 PM by amitakartok
Beware the Crazy Man.
So no comment on Lithuania? I thought this was Eastern European politics, not just Hungary and Poland....
Final Fantasy, Foreign Policy, and Bollywood. Helluva combo, that...
Well, let's face it: the Baltics are generally not really relevant on their own, unlike Poland and Hungary (imo). I honestly don't have an opinion on it that doesn't sound cliché/obvious ("that's bad"). Sorry.
Show an affirming flame
URL is a bit broken—perhaps use a link shortener.
But, yeah, it's an embarrassing and ugly bit of history; sentiment swung far right when they gauged the Soviets to be the most pressing threat (especially once they were eaten up by the USSR), and their citizens paid dearly for that mistake. Owning up to past sins is going to be hard.
Charlie Stross's cheerful, optimistic predictions for 2017, part one of three.
Beware the Crazy Man.
Perhaps this will work? It's the Double Genocide article.
I'm hearing that Austria had enough of the constant flow of refugees coming in through Hungary and are ramping up their own border security.
Interviews of Hungarians living along the southern border reveal that the migrants know about the under-construction border fence and everyone is hauling ass to make it through in time. Serbian authorities say the lockdown is going to cause a humanitarian catastrophe on their side if the migrants start to pile up while waiting for admittance.
The authorities are rounding up registered unemployed people to make them work on the border fence. It's not voluntary: those who refuse are denied unemployment support. Convicts are also being put to work on the construction sites.
I'm more or less on the same boat.
I sincerely sympathize with their plight note but I also recognize that their numbers are unsustainable. For my country and several others in Central-Eastern Europe. We simply don't have the infrastructure.
On the other hand, I have no issue with Greece being host to a livable amount of foreign immigrants.
edited 17th Jun '15 3:46:11 PM by LogoP
It is sometimes an appropriate response to reality to go insane.