Suggestion: Puppet Fighter

I figured I'd throw a few ideas out there before anything gets put in. I think the best possible picture would probably be someone who is clearly controlling the "puppet" from a safe distance.

Here's one of Rosalina in Smash 4, and one of Carl and Relius from the Blazblue series.

edited 20th Mar '14 1:41:59 PM by Nap1100

I like Rosalina's. The second one is too small and busy; can't tell who's controlling what.

edited 20th Mar '14 1:45:17 PM by Elbruno

Carl and Relius, while not as clearly detailed as Rosalina, are probably the better examples between the two. You can clearly see the dolls that they control by their side, while Rosalina.... for all I know, she just shot a projectile at Mario, and the star just happens to have eyes. A LOT of stuff in the Mario franchise has eyes just for the hell of it.

Double example from Persona 4 Arena◊?

The BB one is way too busy, and yeah, the Smash Bros one isn't indicative. Especially since it doesn't look like a fighting game (yes, I know it's not fighting game exclusive, but it makes the illustration clearer).

That one looks less "puppet" and more Assist Character.

I was looking around for a Shadow Labrys example, but I found this◊ and thought it worked too.

Not good. It focuses on the weird double-sword attack instead of the trope.

I think that other than Rosalina, all suggestions are too busy to clearly make out what's actually happening.

Two other Rosalina things.

[1]◊ [2]◊

I went looking for Kankuro, from the Naruto fighting games, but it looks like I'll have to screencap from a video for that.

That doesn't look like this trope at all.

Yeah, it looks clearer in motion.

That first image is the best one of her so far, better than those two..

Rosalina doesn't work at all, on the simple fact that when people think "Puppet", they think something that looks vaguely doll-like and human.

What we need is something more like this◊. I know, it's freaking huge and wouldn't show well in wiki size, but you get the idea at least.

Just going a GIS, I came up with this◊ and this.◊

I know it'd be hard to use Blaz Blue just because of how busy everything looks, but at least you can tell that the puppet looks like a puppet.

edited 21st Mar '14 5:24:54 AM by DRCEQ

That's not what the trope is about. The trope is about a character in a video game that can control two entities simultaneously. Rosalina does that with the Luma, and while I can see why someone would think it's just a projectile, I think the fact that Rosalina is standing a platform above Luma shows that it's more of the "remote control" aspect associated with the trope.

I am aware of that, but it helps if the entity being controlled actually looks like it would be a player character in it's own right. Having some semblance of a humanoid form works best. Throwing a star with a face around doesn't work at all.

Yes, I am aware that Marionette Master is another trope entirely, but it works best if the two overlap.

edited 21st Mar '14 5:28:09 AM by DRCEQ

Problem is that if you throw a "puppet" that looks like could be a fighter, it'll look like a figher or Assist Character to anyone unfamiliar with the game in any still picture.

Rosalina works cause you got a character that looks like she's controlling someone, a little non-fighty looking guy with angry eyes smacking someone, and someone being smacked, all of them clear without unneded distractions.

edited 21st Mar '14 6:07:21 AM by Elbruno

Here's a picture of Sasari from Wonderful World. It's a very obscure game, but There Is No Such Thing As Notability and there is clearly a doll performing a magic attack that hits the player on the right, and the doll's color scheme establishes a link with the player on the left.

This seems to suffer from a classic problem: A lot of the images shown so far are clearly an example if seen in motion, but a still image just doesn't capture it.

How about this version? The fact that the doll is holding swords makes it clearer that it is the one attacking.

edited 23rd Mar '14 1:34:29 PM by Someoneman

Not bad.

I'd crop off the top, but other than that, it's as good as we're gonna get.

I dunno, I think I'd prefer something that doesn't look like a literal puppet, because that's not what Puppet Fighter means.

But using characters that don't may easily be mistaken as Assist Character...

That's been my whole argument. When you think puppet, what comes to mind? Something vaguely humanoid, right? Something that evokes the Uncanny Valley to some degree. You gotta have something that the average Joe can see and think "That character has similar visual elements and physical properties to that person there, so they must be together."

If you see a woman wearing a green dress waving her hand and having a yellow star attacking, they're not going to associate that the star is being controlled by the girl.

If they see a girl standing back in an idle fashion while a miniature doll who is similarly dressed is waving a sword around at the enemy, people can think it's a puppet being controlled.

It's the "miniature" part that bugs me, maybe. Because of the name Puppet Fighter (which I think is fine, btw) that image makes it look like the trope might be about attacks that use little dolls, and it's not. (Although in that example, it is an attack that uses a little doll, but that is not part of the trope definition, it's just how it's played in that example.) That is the wrong meaning of "puppet", which (like many English words) has several meanings.

I agree that "woman controlling a star" doesn't read very well for what message we're trying to get across, but I don't think that does either. It's worse than simply not saying what you mean, it's saying something different than what you mean.

edited 23rd Mar '14 7:45:15 PM by rodneyAnonymous

I see how solitary pictures cannot do a good job here, but how about using a small collection of the clearer ones? That way the pattern would become more evident and we could avoid problems with unclearerness (Lady controlling a star with eyes? What?) or misconceptions (Is this trope about a fighter that uses literal puppets or dolls to fight?)

edited 23rd Mar '14 7:47:51 PM by Elbruno