Suggestion: Muscles Are Meaningless

How about we use a quintessential example from children's literature instead of a picture from an anime, of which there are so many of already? I'm suggesting Pippi Longstocking (from Pippi Longstocking of course) lifting her horse:

The example is well known and illustrates it better, because it's more about raw lifting strength than about punching power or whatever. Just throwing it out there. I can try to track down which of the 1960's TV series episode this image is from, and produce a higher-quality version.

The page itself thinks it is the most famous example from literature: "Pippi Longstocking is perhaps the most famous example of this trope in literature. She can lift one of the area's strongest men... when the man is lifting 100-lb weights, and Pippi herself, as the article's image shows, has ridiculously skinny limbs."

edited 12th Mar '14 7:30:58 AM by Bombax

I like the idea, but I'd really prefer a higher quality image.

Quality issues aside, I still prefer the current. The suggestion looks too much like Pintsized Powerhouse

Speaking of which, what *is* the difference between Muscles Are Meaningless and Pintsized Powerhouse ?

Pintsized Powerhouse: Small, but dangerous. Muscles Are Meaningless: Thin, but strong.

An exceedingly thin man who can lift a thousand pound can be an example of Muscles Are Meaningless but not Pintsized Powerhouse. Also, an extremely muscled midget could be a Pintsized Powerhouse but not an example of Muscles Are Meaningless.

edited 12th Mar '14 8:16:17 AM by Larkmarn

Thanks for clearing that up. In which case I disagree with what the Adeptrogue said, because the image displays that - thin and strong, but not particularly "small and dangerous" (in fact it seems to me like the image on Pintsized Powerhouse could use a do-over, because that's not how it came across - maybe a picture of Mighty Mouse or something but I digress).

Well, nobody said that there can't be overlaps between the two.

Pintsized Powerhouse is defined as "small person who is very strong". Considering that Pippi is obviously still a kid, she appear to embody "small" better than simply "thin" in my opinion. And I do like the contrast between the scrawny guy and the muscular giant in the current because it also illustrates on how having muscles does not make one stronger, further emphasizing the meaninglessness of having muscles.

That's true, there is that contrast. There's one in the TV series too, actually, when Pippi wrestles a strongman (and wins, of course). Let me look through the series and get some better images (both images) and then we might have a better space of decision.

Here are some alternative shots displaying her strength. Perhaps the most illustrative is the last (or the last two).

At the risk of sounding nitpicky, the fact that I can tell the OP suggestion is an obvious special effect ruins its effectiveness for me in demonstrating the trope. The current may not be exactly what we need, but it's good enough for a Keep Until Better Image Suggested vote.

EDIT: Some of are decent.

edited 12th Mar '14 9:25:07 AM by Willbyr

Okay... first looks like she's holding the hands of two men. Second looks like she's leaning on a car. Third is clear. Fourth looked more like she's holding a purse at first.

Fifth and sixth look like they might be good for Pintsized Powerhouse because she's beating a larger man. Though it really looks more like play fighting and that he's just pretending.

Good points all around. Also, Pint-Sized Powerhouse already has a great pic.

Now I'm really confused, haha, the overlap between this and Pintsized Powerhouse isn't as clear as I thought. One reason I thought the last two pics above would be good is because they, like the current image, illustrate muscles are meaningless (like the other poster above argued).

IMO these images are Muscles Are Meaningless for me because Pintsized Powerhouse implies a character using violence, and Muscles Are Meaningless not? Right?

Anyway, I could also get some pictures from the animated series to choose from.

(To the poster about the special effects thing - yeah, this is the 60's where bluescreen was the best technology there is as a side note, that shot is probably the most evocative of ALL Pippi material - just google images "Pippi longstocking strength" and half of the images will be her lifting her horse, because it's so ingrained in the franchise)

edited 12th Mar '14 9:39:30 AM by Bombax

Molly Hayes from Runaways punching the Punisher◊, kicking a truck◊, and lifting a hummer.◊

edited 12th Mar '14 9:39:16 AM by Earnest

Here's one from the animated series:

Anyway, I'll repeat my reason why I think it's a good idea: there's a lot of anime and amerocentric images on the wiki already (the comic book above withstanding), and I think it's a good idea wherever we can make TV tropes look as medium aware as possible.

I'm pretty sure that source media has never been a criteria for changing a perfectly good image. In fact, the policy thread explicitly says that feeling that a work is over/underrepresented is not a valid reason to change an image. If somebody can find another image that's superior to the one that's currently there, by all means we can change it, but if the only motivation is "there's too much anime on the site", that's not a reason to remove a perfectly good picture.

Aside from the fact that the majority of the images so far fit better under Pintsized Powerhouse better anyway, the current has more going for it in that it's not just a skinny person lifting something heavy. It's a hugely muscled guy getting easily overpowered by somebody without that musculature, which makes the contrast clearer. That's why I don't think any of the suggestions are superior to the current: the trope isn't "a skinny person who is strong", it's "a skinny person who is stronger than a muscular person."

edited 12th Mar '14 11:34:05 AM by JapaneseTeeth

I like 9.3, 9.6, and 14.1.

14.3 is used on Super-Strong Child.

edited 12th Mar '14 12:31:49 PM by m8e

Whoa, I didn't even realize there was a Super-Strong Child trope. In which case it's almost better to have one of these images there, and leave the current as it is.

Should I ask this topic to be closed and open a new one about that or should we do it some other way?

Japanese Teeth seems to have a point. The original motivation really seems to be less about picking a good image that represents a trope, and more about finding a pic of Pippi Longstocking because it's a) not anime and b) not America based.

Yeah, upon re reading the starting post, I am giving a very definitive Keep.

I like 14.1 since, like the current, it shows the contrast between the thin and the muscular person, and it's not as over-the-top that it may be confused with Super Strong Child.

May slightly prefer that over the current due to my bias for coloured pics, but it's somewhat lateral.

I don't see any suggestion being better than the current.

Clock is set.

edited 3rd Apr '14 4:17:47 AM by Willbyr

These are from Saint Seiya The Lost Canvas.

Nah, still less clear than in the current.