General Middle East & North Africa Thread

Always wondered, since you know so much about Islam, what's the whole Caliphate thing about? I mean, first there are the whacked-out wahhabis from Al-Quaeda who are saying that it's the holy duty of every Muslim to build a proper Caliphate, then there are the Daeshi fanatics who are running around slaughtering people on camera saying pretty much the same except with the addendum that all other Muslims who want to build a Caliphate are filthy heretics, then there are the goons from the Caucasus Emirate back in Chechnya who used the notion of building a Caliphate to justify building what was mostly a clan-based criminal syndicate masquerading as a state after the first war and who are now using the same rhetoric to justify ruining the lives of pretty much everybody else in the region by scaring potential investors and tourists away, and then there are the actual sane Muslims who keep insisting that Islam is the religion of peace. I'd really like to know what they say about Caliphates and Jihads in general and what is their stance on the distinction between the Greater Jihad and the Lesser Jihad.

edited 10th Nov '15 2:27:14 PM by KnitTie

That question seems more appropriate for the Religion thread, I think.

Alternatively, it would require a couple of books to properly answer it, imo.

edited 10th Nov '15 2:35:42 PM by Quag15

Discussion of Islam in general probably belongs in the Religion, Mythology and Theology thread. Feel free to re-ask the question there.

EDIT:

edited 10th Nov '15 2:35:47 PM by Ramidel

I thought that this might be relevant here, seeing how Islam plays such a huge role in the Middle East, but I'll move the question, thanks for telling me.

I approve of any religion that would allow me to say "I am too lazy to fight you" and instead stay in bed. But the whole daily prayer things is a bit too much exercise for me.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes

It's not a case of "too lazy to fight you", to be honest. You know what this one hadith says about two Muslims who meet each other with drawn weapons and full intent to kill each other? Both the killer and the killed will go to Hell. Some of the Companions asked the Prophet why the victim suffers the same fate as his killer, and the Prophet said it's because he was just as intent on killing his killer, so it doesn't matter who lives and who dies; they both broke God's universal taboo on murder (outside of those who committed sufficiently severe atrocities, such as an unrepentant first-degree murderer).

edited 11th Nov '15 8:38:54 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

Great now you have driven me away from Islam more. I just want a nice excuse to get five more minutes in bed, gosh.

Still. I know the fractions and the sects and everything makes things uber difficult and when speaking of a "unified centre of Islam" is like claiming the Catholic church actually mantained their own people without schism (which is a lie).

But I just think it would make so many things much easier...

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes

Makes one wonder why is the present-day Middle East such a bloodbath.

edited 11th Nov '15 8:53:00 AM by KnitTie

Tribalism.

Keep Rolling On

Peaceful religious ideas are really good at starting massive region spanning conflicts where everyone just murders each other for having a slightly different interpretation.

See the 30 years war for Europe's version.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran

"War is the greatest plague that can afflict humanity, it destroys religion, it destroys states, it destroys families. Any scourge is preferable to it." - Martin Luther, which considering the causes of the thirty years war a century later is kind of harsh.

"I have no fear, for fear is the little death that kills me over and over. Without fear, I die but once."

Because they keep forgetting/ignoring such lessons and commands for their own self-serving convenience... and some even dare to handwave it by saying "You're making it too complicated! Islam is the religion of yusr^note Translates more or less to "lenience", though in a positive sense of rational lenience (i.e. for a good cause and within reason) rather than the negative sense of giving lenience when it's undeserved and/or does more harm than good., right?"

edited 12th Nov '15 3:51:13 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

We're had lots of heavy rainfall today (and will probably continue to have such in the next few days) in Jeddah. Much flooding in several streets and above-bridge tunnels. Yay.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

Are we talking dangerous levels of flooding or just stuff that stops traffic?

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.

We're talking this kind of flooding.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

so how far have they come on Kingdom Tower?

Bumbleby is best ship. busy spending time on r/RWBY and r/anime. Unapologetic Socialist

Photo from October 25.◊

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

@Knit Tie, Marq: Remember, that only applies when Muslims are killing each other. And the Muslims involved in the killing often have very limited Personal Dictionary definitions of Muslim.

Also, of course, there's the much-misunderstood idea that anyone who dies fighting for the jihad receives a Get Out Of Hell Free card.

Which includes every single "blow myself up in the middle of a lot of people" Jihadist.

Inter arma enim silent leges

So Saudia just had its third municiple elections, this time including both women and men as both electors and candidates, for a larger chunk of the seats than before.

Oh yeah, the municipal elections that we somehow never hear about until we just happen to pass by a sign placed in some of the more out-of-the-way streets, often more than halfway into the "campaign". Joy.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

So you'd rather not have them at all? It's minor progress, but progress nonetheless.

My point is that all indications on my end is that they're just for show, without any substance. None of the names are people we ever hear of before or after the elections, and there's no real effort to explain why you should pick one guy over the other. Just some lofty-sounding slogans and other superficial stuff. I bet most if not all of the votes are made up because the actual turnout is abysmally low to none, because nobody I know ever talks about voting in any such elections (not even a passing "Oh yeah, I went to vote last week, just for kicks"-style quip).

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

Hell, what you just described is true even in developed democracies....

Especially at the municipal level. Turnout is often terrible there.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.