Mean-spiritedness in cartoons

As I said, there are a lot of people in the world who like Cat Dog. Ed, Edd n Eddy just lasted longer.

I actually think the larger majority liked Cat Dog. I know quite a few people who never had a problem with it and enjoyed it. The Internet isn't really a large majority.

I think the creators of Cat Dog were pretty wise not to overuse Lube. Ed was one of the main characters, and that's why it kind of suffered. Lube wasn't.

edited 4th Nov '13 7:48:28 PM by Aldo930

"They say I'm old fashioned, and live in the past, but sometimes I think progress progresses too fast."

It is an anomaly at times when one show gets praised despite having similar problems as one that is despised. While I do see all the problems with Family Guy, I don't get why similar aspects of American Dad are (ironically considering the criticisms it does get about being a copycat) not complained about (I still don't get why Brian is far more despised than Hayley for example, or why people aren't in uproar over Klaus being abused like Meg).

Dog however was.

edited 4th Nov '13 7:53:50 PM by Psi001

It's because fate generally has no reason when it wants to make something its whipping boy.

Dog wasn't a non-sequitur machine, though. He worked as part of a Laurel and Hardy style comedy team, in my opinion.

edited 4th Nov '13 7:54:12 PM by Aldo930

"They say I'm old fashioned, and live in the past, but sometimes I think progress progresses too fast."

Which is an amusing nod to this very subject.

Concerning stupid characters, I guess because most of the times in mean spirited shows, they're a quick way to force in Comedic Sociopathy that is unintentional (so doesn't require turning a character into a Jerkass Karma Houdini), so are required to over utilize their Innocently Insensitive aspects. Not to mention most stupid characters' redeeming aspects are that they are often nice heartwarming people with clarity in other areas, which can only be utilized in certain doses in a Black Comedy (though can be used more fully if done right, eg. Stimpy). This is arguably why Spongebob decayed when his show became more sadistic, the heartwarming factor of his personality had to be overlooked in favor of the brainless, inconsiderate, and thoroughly destructive part.

edited 4th Nov '13 7:59:24 PM by Psi001

Thank you for the compliment.

I would again argue that outside of being hyperactive and having his canine instincts, Dog was never as bad as some characters I could name.

Didn't Stimpy mind rape his best friend out of a misguided idea that he wanted to just make Ren happy?

edited 4th Nov '13 8:00:43 PM by Aldo930

"They say I'm old fashioned, and live in the past, but sometimes I think progress progresses too fast."

There was just something about Stimpy that made him more humanized to me. Part of it was he often got punished or abused (and then some) when he bothered Ren, and maybe also there was more Sympathetic P.O.V. and pathos. In said episode for example, you saw how much he toiled over his invention and was desperate to make Ren feel better, so you sort of empathized it was well intentioned if horribly misled. In Cat Dog and a lot of other shows, the sympathy is more on the victim, with the dumb character more a one note pivot of their abuse.

There were a few times he crossed the line however, I admit, even if he was still more liable to get a comeuppance for it.

edited 4th Nov '13 8:08:41 PM by Psi001

On some level I did empathize with Dog, because Cat could really be a jerk at times. (You say things like "State fairs are a refuge for the feebleminded," you're not winning points from me.) While I like Cat better, he sometimes radiates this arrogant attitude that turns me off.

I'd love to see a thread about this sort of anomaly you talk about, where one show gets hated and another praised for doing the exact same thing... People are hypocrites, if you ask me.

edited 4th Nov '13 8:14:43 PM by Aldo930

"They say I'm old fashioned, and live in the past, but sometimes I think progress progresses too fast."

True, but I think Ren and Stimpy hit the balance a lot better, especially since Ren was far more capable of dishing it back out than Cat was, and on a more routine basis too (Cat could be manipulative and conniving at times, but Ren routinely pummeled and borderline enslaved Stimpy).

As said it's also because, even when it was Stimpy's turn to be the instigator, there seemed a bit more sympathetic build up, like in cases he was earnestly trying not to make an ass of things. Dog never seemed remotely pitiable when he made Cat's life hell.

I might look into such a thread if I can conjure up more examples. If you have any, you may start it off.

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a routinely pretentious flip flopper.

edited 4th Nov '13 8:23:29 PM by Psi001

I actually think I was turned off at "borderline enslaved."

Cat was more of a Jerk with a Heart of Gold, who was shown to care about his brother and stand up for him at times. What saved the show for me was the idea that deep down they did care for each other.

I wouldn't know about the comparisons to Ren and Stimpy. It wasn't trying to be Ren and Stimpy, it was trying to be more Laurel and Hardy...

I would definitely post in such a thread.

edited 4th Nov '13 8:24:32 PM by Aldo930

"They say I'm old fashioned, and live in the past, but sometimes I think progress progresses too fast."

Ren had that under John K's pen (if a bit more sociopathic at times), the Games episodes tended to negate his redeeming aspects however, or even toy with them just to show what a bastard he was (eg. moments he seemed to care for Stimpy, but quickly got over it or revealed it to be for a selfish cause.

I know, I'm just saying I think the show handled the more Comedic Sociopathy better. In fact I think one too many Nick shows tried to copy Ren and Stimpy's humor, but never quite got the point.

edited 4th Nov '13 8:31:08 PM by Psi001

And then you had the Adult Party Cartoon episodes, where Ren was the abuser in a gay relationship.

"They say I'm old fashioned, and live in the past, but sometimes I think progress progresses too fast."

That was a oddball case, wasn't it? Granted Adult's Party Ren did at least have some vague visible heart.

I think John K stated he liked the emotion of remorse, characters acting like complete jackasses, then winning back the audience because they show them they feel legitimately bad about it. Ren took it to a new level (and thus lost a fair bit of character when Games took that aspect away).

edited 4th Nov '13 8:30:18 PM by Psi001

I actually think the show resembles more Laurel and Hardy than Ren and Stimpy because, well, it isn't trying to copy the Ren and Stimpy style of humor. It's under the Gross-Out Show page when it isn't really one. Gross jokes are few and far between.

Oh, and if y'wanna talk mean spirited, I'd say the comment I once saw that anyone who actually liked the show had their Nostalgia Goggles on too tight was pretty damn mean.

edited 4th Nov '13 8:39:17 PM by Aldo930

"They say I'm old fashioned, and live in the past, but sometimes I think progress progresses too fast."

That doesn't sound like a mean comment. A strawmanning comment and an argument that is used way too often for so many shows (though tends to be accurate in quite a few cases, albeit not all of them at all), no doubt, but not exactly what I'd call mean. Now, if that person were to say anyone who actually liked the show was an idiot who needs to go die in a hole, that's mean.

It's because all of the abuse gave him further brain damage.

Insert witty 'n clever quip here.

Strawmen, sure, but it is pretty dickish by assuming that anyone who likes the show is simply deluding themselves because of their nostalgia.

"They say I'm old fashioned, and live in the past, but sometimes I think progress progresses too fast."

I don't care if it's mean-spirited or not, all I care about is is it funny? Ed Edd N Eddy was funny, very funny, while Cat Dog was about as funny as getting fillings put in with no gas. So I'm willing to overlook the Eds getting pounded to a pulp because it's funny and they do tend to deserve it.

Of course, don't you know anything about ALCHEMY?!- Twin clones of Ivan the Great

Comedy is really subjective. Ya wanna give a bigger reason why it wasn't funny?

"They say I'm old fashioned, and live in the past, but sometimes I think progress progresses too fast."

Because unlike the Eds, Cat-Dog was a freak, and their lot in life was mined for cheap grossout gags and forced pathos.

Of course, don't you know anything about ALCHEMY?!- Twin clones of Ivan the Great

As I had said, grossout gags were far and few between. And I didn't think the pathos seemed that forced, I really didn't.

At least Cat Dog was never raped, if you know what I mean.

"They say I'm old fashioned, and live in the past, but sometimes I think progress progresses too fast."

Eh, I tend to think that myself with certain shows. I don't think it's that bad of an opinion to voice, just kind of a misguided and ill-advised one.

Getting back on topic, honestly, I did watch Cat Dog when I was young, but all I ever remembered from it was the theme song. If it was any good, I'd think I'd remember more than that. Later on, once they started airing reruns of it again, I caught a few episodes and proceeded to be really, really bored while watching them.

Meanwhile, Ed Edd N Eddy I can watch anytime and still be entertained by it. Sure, the levels of jackassery in the show may be a bit too disproportionate for my liking at times, but the rest of the show's writing more than makes up for it for me. That show had least had the capacity to be witty.

edited 4th Nov '13 8:54:33 PM by Odd1

Insert witty 'n clever quip here.

Wow. Someone who describes it as boring. Cannot believe it.

I honestly do believe the show had some pretty creative visual gags.

Ed, Edd n Eddy, while I did find it funny, had the Kankers, who were not and never were funny.

edited 4th Nov '13 8:58:55 PM by Aldo930

"They say I'm old fashioned, and live in the past, but sometimes I think progress progresses too fast."

Rape? Really? Really?

It's a cartoon that plays with exaggeration for a good deal of it's humor, with a nostalgic tone akin to A Christmas Story, so it felt to me that the Eds were making it sound worse than it was, as the main timeframe for Ed Edd N Eddy seems to be the summer puberty began to set in for the boys. But I'm half-asleep so what do I know?

Of course, don't you know anything about ALCHEMY?!- Twin clones of Ivan the Great

I never did feel that way as a kid, I'll admit. I always thought it was just kissing because, well, they don't know any better.

But there are still other criticisms of the show that do stand.

"They say I'm old fashioned, and live in the past, but sometimes I think progress progresses too fast."

Really, you didn't actually think it was rape as a kid? Don't all kids think stuff like that is rape?

And yes, I think Cat Dog is really boring. Its writing is just not very good at making the show have any bit of excitement or cleverness. That bores me.

edited 4th Nov '13 9:11:06 PM by Odd1

Insert witty 'n clever quip here.

No. No, I didn't. Kids knowing about rape bothers me.

I can see why you may find it boring, but I do kinda find it clever. It isn't the best Nicktoon but it is pretty good.

"They say I'm old fashioned, and live in the past, but sometimes I think progress progresses too fast."