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Needs Help: Weasel Words
Deadlock Clock: 31st Oct '13 11:59 PM
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Needs Help: Weasel Words get usage counts

This trope isn't really clear what it wants to be. Is it a trope about an advertising trick? Is it an administrivia page about something not to do on the wiki? And the fact that it's mildly self-demonstrating isn't helping.

We just need to decide what this page is and stick with it. Right now, it's too confusing for new tropers.
Right now, it doesn't look like it is even describing weasel words. Instead, its describing how other people use it. That's more like, "and don't just take my word for it!". The Administrivia entry is clearly on Examples Are Not Arguable, though.

There are non-advertising examples of weasel words, but right now this is an index of advertising tropes that might use ww....? Page is unusable, and needs writing from the ground up.
Still new. Still learning. Asking questions and making mistakes.
 3 Septimus Heap, Sat, 14th Sep '13 8:33:18 AM from Madrid, Spain Relationship Status: Mu
Another Wizard boy
Weasel Words are storytelling devices, specifically words that are much more vague than they seem at first.

The policy page is Examples Are Not Arguable.

 4 Rethkir, Sat, 14th Sep '13 8:55:16 AM Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
This seems more like a sub-index of Advertising Tropes.
 5 Septimus Heap, Sat, 14th Sep '13 8:56:42 AM from Madrid, Spain Relationship Status: Mu
Another Wizard boy
Weasel Words is a valid Rhetoric Trope. These items would be subtropes of it.

 6 Another Duck, Sat, 14th Sep '13 5:41:54 PM from Stockholm Relationship Status: Chocolate!
No, the other one.
So, a trope about vague words has a vague description?

From what I understand of the off-wiki use of the term, it's about words or phrases that imply more than they actually mean. Taken at face value, they don't say much at all, or are just not impressive. However, the way they're used imply there's substance to them, that they mean something.

Up To Or More is a good one. Part of this complete breakfast should perhaps be there as well. The "anonymous authority" definition found on The Other Wiki is basically about that saying, "Some people claim..." can basically amount to "Me and my friend claim..." which is useless.
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Yeah, this is one case where going self-demonstrating all the way will be self-defeating. But the main trouble with the article is that it's boring.

That said, weasel words are all about the usage. Some (a favourite weasel word!) words can act as both a weasel word or not, depending on context.

Eg:

We must approach this problem in an appropriate manner (weasel usage, gives no hint on what is considered appropriate)

The appropriate way to fix this trope is via the Trope Repair Shop.

Duck gave a much better definition here than what's currently on the page. The first paragraph at least can be replaced by that.
Still new. Still learning. Asking questions and making mistakes.
 9 Septimus Heap, Sun, 15th Sep '13 6:54:37 AM from Madrid, Spain Relationship Status: Mu
Another Wizard boy
Yeah, I agree with that as well. Switch.

 10 Another Duck, Sun, 15th Sep '13 8:37:10 AM from Stockholm Relationship Status: Chocolate!
No, the other one.
Took a stab at it. That better?
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The first half actually does the job it needs to, now. Not happy with the rest of it.

We do agree that Weasel Words are a trope in their own right, not just an advertising method, correct?

edited 15th Sep '13 9:04:06 AM by crazysamaritan

Still new. Still learning. Asking questions and making mistakes.
 12 Septimus Heap, Sun, 15th Sep '13 9:04:47 AM from Madrid, Spain Relationship Status: Mu
Another Wizard boy
"Advertising method" is already included in "trope".

[up] Captain Obvious
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 14 Septimus Heap, Wed, 25th Sep '13 8:59:51 AM from Madrid, Spain Relationship Status: Mu
Another Wizard boy
The new description is better. Anything else that ought to be fixed?

Maybe. My question was never answered. You only stated the warrant I was using. No one else has posted since.
Still new. Still learning. Asking questions and making mistakes.
 16 Septimus Heap, Wed, 25th Sep '13 1:39:37 PM from Madrid, Spain Relationship Status: Mu
Another Wizard boy
I did answer it in @12, and you seemed to agree in @13.

No, that was my warrant. An advertising method must be a trope. That's not something that needs to be said. Do we want to expand the use of Weasel Words outside of advertising methods? Because it fits with several Truth and Lies tropes, and characters can use it in a story, not just product placement.

Or, do we want to change the definition slightly to restrict this to an index of advertising tropes only?
Still new. Still learning. Asking questions and making mistakes.
 18 Septimus Heap, Sat, 28th Sep '13 2:41:57 AM from Madrid, Spain Relationship Status: Mu
Another Wizard boy
I could see an expansion.

 19 m8e, Sat, 28th Sep '13 3:30:54 AM from Sweden Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
It's a "Rhetorical technique" so I think it's a general trope just as the Truth and Lies, Logical Fallacies, or the Social Engineering tropes.

edited 28th Sep '13 3:31:54 AM by m8e

My cat is a south paw.
 20 Septimus Heap, Sat, 28th Sep '13 3:52:03 AM from Madrid, Spain Relationship Status: Mu
Another Wizard boy
We don't have an index of these, do we?

Not that I know of, which is why I was asking if we could expand this. smile
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 22 Willbyr, Mon, 28th Oct '13 6:51:41 AM from North Little Rock, AR Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
With Mod Hat On
Clock is set.
So should we do a crowner to see what this should be repurposed as?
Why should this trope be repurposed? It is working fine. I think the definition could be expanded, but that isn't creating a new purpose.
Still new. Still learning. Asking questions and making mistakes.
 25 Septimus Heap, Fri, 1st Nov '13 12:52:44 AM from Madrid, Spain Relationship Status: Mu
Another Wizard boy
The clock is up; if we want to discuss broadening it, I'd need some example of this trope being used outside of advertising/rhetoric.

Total posts: 27
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