Not Thriving: Antepiece

Total posts: [79]
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1 Beed288th Sep 2013 06:08:07 AM from United Kingdom
Antepiece has only six examples at the most, with over half of them being weblinks to other pages. Furthermore, there's only two pages that link to this trope at the time of writing this; Tremor Trampoline and Video Game Tropes.

Furthermore, this trope doesn't appear to have even been started in YKTTW, due to the lack of button in the (blank) discussion page. Further evidence that the page wasn't started in YKTTW is shown in the page's history, where you can clearly see some examples being slowly added over the time.

So what are we going to do with it, exactly?
2 SeptimusHeap8th Sep 2013 06:22:33 AM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
These examples need a rewrite, at least. And otherwise, cutlist.
3 AnotherDuck8th Sep 2013 07:05:44 AM from Stockholm , Relationship Status: In season
No, the other one.
Well, it's a legit trope. Also hard to find examples to, because it's often so subtle we don't think about it. And subtle tropes are often not included because people don't even think of them as tropes. They're just there, too minor to count.

I don't think it should be cut. Some effort to gather examples would certainly help, and add information to the examples with links. Should be relatively easy to just follow the link and see what it says, assuming they work. But don't remove the link, as it's still useful.
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4 Rethkir8th Sep 2013 07:19:30 AM from the gap between dimensions
[up] Agree. This trope is when a game trains a player by introducing them to an element so they can figure it out on their own later. An example would be from Portal when you're told to dispose of the Companion Cube, which prepares you to destroy the cores the same way in the Boss Fight. It's hard to be aware of this unless it's mentioned in the developer commentary, which is how I'm aware of the Portal example.
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5 AnotherDuck8th Sep 2013 09:52:07 AM from Stockholm , Relationship Status: In season
No, the other one.
There's also a small step you have to jump in the beginning of Super Metroid, which is even a bit jarring due to there being stairs you can just walk up and down. Jumping is somewhat important in the game. I'll add a proper example later when I have time to sit down and write it.
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It probably needs a better name, especially since "antepiece" seems to have no pre-existing usage.
7 Rethkir9th Sep 2013 07:33:24 AM from the gap between dimensions
[up] It doesn't help that Google says: "Did you mean: mantlepiece?" when you look it up.

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8 AnotherDuck9th Sep 2013 08:26:12 AM from Stockholm , Relationship Status: In season
No, the other one.
That might help, yes. Something like Instructive Level Design? Or is there a name for it? It says Valve uses the term Mechanic Reminder, which does work, but if it's used a name for a subset, it may not be appropriate.
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I've cleaned up the page to a level I hope is satisfactory, and added to it.

I also added a justification for why I call it an "antepiece". I realize it sounds a little strange, but it is descriptive and "antepieces" are a major innovation. They allow the presentation of sophisticated concepts to players that might otherwise require annoying text. For some players of video games, antepieces are the ONLY way they can be educated with enough smoothness to keep it understandable.
10 Rethkir15th Sep 2013 06:49:46 AM from the gap between dimensions
Eh, I'm not a fan of the image. While yes, I know Portal is a great example, the image doesn't really explain too much and relies on the caption. But let's wait for TRS to finish before going to Image Pickin'.

I don't dislike the name, but the fact that it's a made-up term does not help the trope's popularity.
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In a way, this is related to Chekov's Gun, but in an interactive manner. A specific game mechanic is demonstrated first, that the player will have to remember and take advantage of later.

Not sure if it's a good idea to make a snowclone, though, or if there can be said to be a relation between the two.
12 Rethkir15th Sep 2013 06:56:50 AM from the gap between dimensions
[up] It should be in that index, though. And you meant Chekhov's Gun. Chekov's Gun is a Just for Fun page, and it should really go in that namespace.

edited 15th Sep '13 10:56:05 AM by Rethkir

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The page is small enough, with few enough examples and wicks, that I just say cutlist and YKTTW it.

For the record, the source of the term "antepiece" seems to be this article (ctrl-f to find it; it's about a third of the way down the page), and it's apparently a portmanteau of "antechamber" and "setpiece". Given that that article is the very last result on the first page of a search for "antepiece" on Google (the TV Tropes article and this thread are #1 and #2 respectively, for comparison), it's obviously not a very well known term, even if it is absolutely a legit trope that we should be covering.

I'd say a better name is Training Setpiece or Tutorial Setpiece; it's a Video Game Setpiece that teaches you about the game mechanics. Throw it to YKTTW for a better description and more examples and it should be fine. (Incidentally, the difference between Video Game Setpiece and Scripted Event is blurred as hell.)
14 AnotherDuck15th Sep 2013 12:28:59 PM from Stockholm , Relationship Status: In season
No, the other one.
Going to YKTTW to gather examples I wouldn't mind. Cutting and going to YKTTW to gather examples I do mind. It's not a case of a weakly defined trope that needs redefinition, and it still has ten examples at the moment. Which need crosswicking. It doesn't have a lot examples, but it's not at the point where they're so insignificant you can just throw them away because they're not enough. And I don't trust YKTTW won't just stall and forget about it.
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Eleven now ;) (edit: twelve!)

(not that it's relevant to antepieces, but as a game designer I'll say I reckon the difference between a video game setpiece and a scripted event is that a scripted event should involve a script! :P This [1] is a setpiece, with no script, because it is in super mario bros and they do not have scripts!)

edited 16th Sep '13 12:05:55 PM by hamishtodd1

Better image?
17 AnotherDuck19th Sep 2013 06:12:19 AM from Stockholm , Relationship Status: In season
No, the other one.
Much better image. Very long caption, though it does go on about explaining the trope properly, which may be needed for this one.
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18 Rethkir19th Sep 2013 03:15:54 PM from the gap between dimensions
That image would go well with a decision diagram overlayed on top explaining it. Maybe with some inserts of Mario at each point. I could do that.
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^^^ I'm not quite sure what you intend by that. Have you read anna anthropy's article about it?
Umm... what post did you think you were replying to?
21 Bailey29th Sep 2013 05:28:29 PM from Next Sunday, A.D.
Just driving by quickly to point out that there's a term for this in the video game industry: it's called "conveyance".

Conveyance is perhaps slightly broader than the definition here which puts the emphasis on introducing a specific setpiece rather than gameplay that will be useful later generally, but the broader definition is a better match for our existing examples (which are not all about specific setpieces).
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Speaking of Google, if you type "antepiece" (with quotes) you get a whopping TWO HUNDRED AND FORTY FIVE results. 245, as in just less than a quarter of 1,000. In other words, the word basically doesn't exist.

edited 29th Sep '13 7:00:48 PM by Stratadrake

Well, that's good. We shouldn't expect misuse then.
24 AnotherDuck30th Sep 2013 12:40:32 AM from Stockholm , Relationship Status: In season
No, the other one.
Conveyance is a good word, as it's actually what's used for it. However, it's also about the telling aspect, and not just the showing (which is what the trope is about). We also have tropes like Justified Tutorial or He Knows about Timed Hits which are related to that.

Expanding the trope to cover both meanings would be an idea, though there might be an idea to soft-split it.

On the other hand, it is a bit of a sliding scale. (I don't think Sliding Scale Of Video Game Conveyance would be a good idea, but it could make for an interesting analysis.)
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Problem is, it's almost as non-indicative if you don't already know what it means.

Total posts: 79
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