Needs Help (New Crowner 8/18/13): Stop Helping Me

Attempt no. 2 for this issue. The problem is that Stop Helping Me has both a YMMV topic and objective topic rolled into 1. The Main page has all objective examples while the "firm" split Video Game section has all YMMV examples. Such a huge Mind Screw with that. And it currently has the YMMV banner when it still has the objective topic.

I say we split them into two tropes. How we'll go about that will be hammered out through this discussion.

edited 15th Jul '13 8:29:41 PM by WaxingName

Are there any YMMV examples? Otherwise, just focusing the description on in-universe aspects should suffice.

A YMMV example: escorts and mission-created friendlies in Escape Velocity being overzealous and blowing up a ship you were trying to disable for a mission. The Video Games subpage is a mess; among other things we've got people complaining about too many tutorials.

An objective example: from Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets, Harry to Dobby: "Just promise me one thing: Never try to save my life again."

EDIT: Does the quote formatting not work on the forums or something?

edited 15th Jul '13 7:24:46 AM by StarSword

Split into new names. One would be a YMMV video game trope, while the other an objective In Universe Examples Only trope. The current title is also dialoguesque.

In my opinion, all formatting that works on the wiki should work on the forums.

edited 15th Jul '13 7:26:21 AM by MikuruFan

That would work.

I think we might have to split this even more.

Something like:

• In-Universe
• Bad due to an direct In-universe game effect: Escorts accidentally destroying targets instead of disabling them, medics that blows the players cover/position, Michael Palin giving useless advices by design, friendly fire, friendlies that gets in the way(of fire), etc
• "Out-Universe": Exposition Fairies, tutorials and the like that only affects the game by getting on the players nerves and by breaking their concentration.

edited 15th Jul '13 10:30:16 AM by m8e

I support a split. The video game reaction seems quite different to me.

I support the split. I've noticed it myself that it's both a reaction between characters in-universe and interaction between the story and the audience members, which especially concerns various games.

Yeah, the Video Game section is clearly YMMV, though it's "firm" split for now while everything else is subjective and on the main page.

I say keep Stop Helping Me mostly as it is while moving the video game examples to a new page.

We just need a good name for that new page.

Sorry. I just had to pop in and point out the irony in the fact that the Stop Helping Me trope needs help.

You may now return to your regularly scheduled discussion.

Heh.

So the last two tropes suggested in 6 would be video game only YMMV tropes?

@m8e: Can you or someone else better clarify the second part of your proposal?

The second deals with NPCs and game mechanics messing with the player while the third is about a dragged on tutorial. That's what I get from the descriptions. The second one sounds like Scrappy Mechanic.

They don't seem that different to me.

The second one is basically Scrappy Mechanic except it doesn't need to hated, it just need to be bad. (and this )

• NPC's that's supposed help you does a bad job because of some mechanical aspect of the game. Could be a bug or a feauture. Stuff that would make the character you play go Stop Helping Me!
• Anything that make the player go Stop Helping Me!. Irritating voices that every third second remind you that more "Plebs are needed!", helping popups, tutorials, etc that breaks the immersion and assumes that the Players Are Morons.

edited 16th Jul '13 12:41:43 AM by m8e

Is there a difference? I'm not really seeing that right now.

Escorts destroying targets you're supposed to disable is not YMMV.

I think two tropes would be enough. One for helpers who make things worse, whether the "stop helping me" -reaction ends up being expressed in-universe or not. And one for the annoying videogame advisors which would be YMMV.

Took a look at the video game section of this page. It already has its own page quote and image. That indicates that there's another trope working there.

I think a split into two tropes is enough.

I say we split it into a trope page and a YMMV page. Something like I Do Not Need Your Help.

edited 16th Jul '13 1:59:11 AM by Thecommander236

That's pretty dialoguey.

Yep, that's dialogue. Thumbing it down.

Wait, did someone make a crowner, or am I missing something?

If we did have a crowner, it would first be over whether to split the trope.

I don't think we need to do that, honestly. I've yet to see someone in this thread contest that we should split it.

We can skip ahead to the name for the new trope; it makes things go faster.

You can do that? I didn't know that.

The issue is over how we should split the page. There's suggestions for two tropes and suggestions for three.